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This episode is for every man that has silently struggled behind the mask of success.
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Dr Arvid Petrie is pulling back the veil.
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Dr Petrie is a father, your dentist.
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Father're a friend.
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I've known you for I was trying to calculate on the way over here seven years that we've known each other.
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You've also been a wonderful friend to my late husband and I still remember very vividly calling you when I announced the terrible, awful news that my husband had died by suicide, and how you had shared your struggles and you have stood by my side.
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It's been three years now and I just want to say thank you.
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Thank you for your support throughout my journey and I'm so honored that you're ready to share your story now.
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Yeah well, you've given some gifts, melissa, to your story your struggle, the traumas that came from Scott's passing and what's happened from that, but you've turned that into purpose and that's been highly enjoyable to watch from the outside, from my perspective and even my spouse's, and we salute you, we support you and we're here for a reason, and I remember meeting you in DC in 2017.
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Yeah, is that what it was?
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Yeah, that was fun.
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And then, there was.
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Bahamas.
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I remember Bahamas too.
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That was a lot of fun.
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A lot of life lived in the last seven years, but a lot of life left to live.
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Absolutely Well, I'd love to start by the beginning kind of your childhood and also, have you always wanted to?
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be a dentist, or was that something that was expected of you?
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You know, upbringing is always interesting, especially when you come from Middle Eastern or Eastern parents.
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My dad is born here.
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He's passed on some years back Mother's from India.
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So growing up, us three boys, there was a lot of expectation I don't want to put it necessarily expectation, but indoctrination of, hey, there's going to be a level of success.
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That is expected.
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And we always joke in the Indian culture you're going to be the engineer, you're going to be the doctor or you're going to be the attorney.
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I think there's a subliminal fourth if you're going to go into finance.
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I heard that's acceptable now too in modern culture.
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And to that regard, my dad was an engineer, my brothers are engineer and I became a physician through my own right.
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But growing up I would actually give my mother most credit for why I wanted to be a dentist, and it was from an early age.
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I mean, I've got pictures back from probably second grade, so whatever age about 10 years old drawing pictures of my office.
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And at least I was smart enough to know I liked cars and I had a red Ferrari.
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No, I ended up getting a red truck, not the red Ferrari, I got the Ford, but I had these things since a very, very young age, so since about 10, that I knew that I wanted to and I pursued this career into dentistry, especially not just medicine but dentistry.
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And then, uh, do you, once you became a dentist, can you kind of tell us your story?
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I know you had dealt with, you know, cancer and divorce, you know yeah, I'll, uh, I'll go into all of that because you know my story is interesting.
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I don't necessarily know that I would wish the same path that I took on others, because every single mistake I can think of or hardship along the way I feel like I've experienced to some degree.
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But that's by my own choosing or just by the default necessities of life.
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But I'm coming up here.
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I'll be 42 this July, celebrating my birthday.
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I went to University of Pittsburgh General School.
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I applied throughout the country.
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I had a lot of acceptances in East Coast.
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I spent four wonderful years out pit.
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I have a lot of great memories there, great friendships, great curriculum and good feedback coming out of that education.
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I came back home, pursued a residency in Spokane, Washington.
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That's where Gonzaga, my oldest daughter, will be going to school here in the fall time and for a while I was trying to figure out what I wanted to do, because you always think about specialty.
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I mean there's a lot of stress to get a dental school just by its default, the fact that you're in a competitive program and your entire education from when you're young to when you're into your teenage and your young adolescence.
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I mean it's competition and that's something that is indoctrinated in you and I think it stays.
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A lot of docs is there's a constant like fear of comparison.
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There's this edgy culture where you're just always trying to get ahead and going through that.
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I don't necessarily know that I had the best undergrad experience, because there was always that fear am I good enough?
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Am I going to get accepted?
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Am I going to make it to the universities?
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And I had some denials from some universities I really wanted to get into and that really hits the ego.
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But I had acceptances.
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I went to Pitt, came back home, went to Spokane.
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It was during those residency that I started to realize I had a really good didactic with children.
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I worked with some of the kids through the program.
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I was very good at it.
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I applied to residency.
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I was accepted to head actually back to Pittsburgh to do pediatrics there and I rescinded that residency application and offer a couple of months before I was set to move my family back at the time.
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Then I started working in private practice.
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I had a great associate position.
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I was running a satellite office by myself a year and a half out of school, which I think was a lot At the time.
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I don't think we understand where we're at in our careers and what we're capable of, what we're not capable of.
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And I look back now thinking man, I was 27 years old, thrown into a private practice with no oversight and hell, no real education on business, on some of the leadership aspects of running a small team, all these things with business ownership, that we don't have enough training on a dental school and that's not to fault or blame the university system.
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There's a lot of didactics, a lot of information has to be stuffed within a short period of time, so it's kind of an all you can eat buffet and your plates are coming and you're trying to take little bits, as much as you can, before it clears down that conveyor belt.
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So that was a great experience and at the time my previous spouse was not happy where we were at and there was some early struggles in marriage and the family.
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That led me to start looking for a practice back in Western Washington, where I'm originally from, and I linked up with a doctor.
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This is 2013.
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So just two and a half years out of my graduation and at 29 years old, I bought my first practice and I actually bought a practice before I ever bought a home.
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And that same month I bought a home, moved the whole family over and it was just a lot over a little amount of time, and that, to me, was awesome.
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I was feeling on top of the world.
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I'm like here I am, I'm 29 years old, I'm a shotgunner.
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I'm a gunner, I'm good at my relationships Not sure I know anything about dentistry yet, but I'm really good at relationships and hopped into a very, very established practice that was actually a sinking ship and that was something that I wouldn't wish upon my younger self and other docs, because I didn't have any oversight.
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There was nobody telling me hey Petrie, hey Arvind, maybe you don't want to buy this practice for these reasons, Maybe you shouldn't do this for these reasons.
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Maybe you should do this for these reasons, practice for these reasons.
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Maybe you shouldn't do this for these reasons, Maybe you should do this for these reasons.
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And I blindly stepped in, going off the advice of the brokers, consultants that I was using, and stepped in my first practice.
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Things were great, as I thought.
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And then, two months into my first position, my first year, I was bankrupt and we were negative cash flow.
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We weren't making any money and I thought, man, what have I done to go within three months from having a great position, making good money, having a good life to.
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I don't know how to pay my bills.
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I don't know how to pay my team members I've.
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I don't even know how to like pay the rent next month.
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I mean, it's a lot of stuff on a on an, honestly, a 30 year old young man and at this point, with two children.
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I don't think a lot of people realize that with dentistry, especially in the early times, that they could be struggling.
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They could have the big office but just the overhead and your student loans.
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And you said you just had moved, bought a house.
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That alone was just too much.
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Life was happening super, super fast and you know, the benefit and the blessing of today's younger doctors and physicians is there's a there's a good amount of community out there.
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Right, social media wasn't necessarily a big thing when I came out.
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Yeah, we had some, some Facebook, I don't think Instagram was around, but we didn't necessarily have these support groups.
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There was coaching, there was professional groups out there within reach, but there wasn't a lot of communication, there wasn't a lot of community.
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So I kind of felt like I was on an island by myself.
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I didn't have anybody necessarily turned to.
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I didn't have anybody in family in business.
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I had nobody in dentistry in business.
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I was the only one in my circle, a friend group, that bought a practice so quick out of school.
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So my advice circle, my counsel, was very small and that is something that I wish I didn't have.
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But at the same time it pushed me into figuring shit out.
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To be honest, I made a lot of mistakes, picked up associate jobs and the one thing that I could do was I could work, and I blessed my dad for this because he was a hard worker.
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So he gave me that mindset that, at the end of the day, like a man works and as much as that's a blessing, it's also kind of a curse, right, because we work and we work and we work.
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But that comes at a cost, which obviously came to cost me.
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So I got a couple of positions on the side.
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I worked through that.
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You know it took about two years to really get the practice right to where we were cashflow and positive.
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I was actually starting to understand what overhead meant.
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I mean, that's a key term that I had no freaking idea what what overhead was from a business perspective.
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I just looked at the old numbers, the old doc, and said, okay, that looks like good money.
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If I come on, that's exactly what's going to happen.
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But that's not what happened, because now you have insurance write-off from a fee-for-service practice to a heavy, heavy PPO practice.
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So all the profits were cut off by signing that contract with the various insurance companies.
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But, like I said, this isn't coming from a place of complaining but a place of understanding, like what were the steps that I had gone through?
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What were the steps that I had gone through?
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But after two years and grinding hard, doing five, six days a week, um, we started to get to a place of stability and some more income and started building branding.
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And then of January 2015 was when I'd gone in for some pain and in my abdomen and met with the urologist, took a, took a quick CAT scan, but what do they do with the ultrasound?
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Yeah, to see the babies, took an ultrasound 10-second examination and kind of sat up and said, okay, arvin, well I got an opening tomorrow at 9 o'clock in the surgery bay.
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We'll get you in and we'll get the cancer removed and we'll talk about post-operative and any chemo radiation will be needed.
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And I was like Frank Frank Kim, my urologist.
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I'm like hold on a second.
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What Cancer?
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Not what I was prepared for.
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I thought we were gonna talk about a hernia, maybe something like that, or too much stress.
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So it was a lot to go on in those first couple of years here and it was tough, I'm not gonna lie.
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Because in those two years that you were grinding the five, six days a week and you had, you said, a young family at the same time, so you probably didn't have a lot of time to take care of you On top of that.
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I had a practice, I had two mortgages, I had people that relied on me, I had a team that relied on me and leading up to that now that if you go back to those times before your diagnosis, were there little whispers that you can remember to like slow down or to starting things were starting to ache, or little signs not just yet, but also I wasn't looking for the signs of the breadcrumbs yeah I wasn't looking to see.
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Hey, I'm coming home on the weekend and I'm checking out, right.
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I'm not present with my family.
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I'm I'm drinking, I'm watching movies, I'm I'm sedating, whatever that may look like like.
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I don't realize that that was just a hey.
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Now.
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I've had a hard work week.
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I need to get get some time for myself.
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I did know I started taking a lot of baths and that's still like that way of like coming down and like separating out.
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Um but that was where you're coming home and then just checking out.
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Yeah, yeah, just checking out, but just coming home and being angry I think you know a little bit about that.
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Just overwhelmed yeah.
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Yeah, because you know we have so many energy units or so many F's to give for the day, and then we start borrowing from our internal backup store and that comes at a cost too.
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But again, I was too young and, honestly, too immature to understand what that meant and to realize that.
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Yeah.
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But the signs were probably there and it wasn't to slow down.
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I mean, all I knew was hey, if you've got so much stuff to do in so many hours, you just grind, you just grind because you're young, right?
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See?
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I think a lot of people that are young, they're like maybe late twenties, and they're like, well, I'm young, I can grind.
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You know, I know Scott did that, you know, graduated 26 and he's six days a week for I don't know how many years.
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It's like, well, I could just grind.
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But the same thing kind of happens.
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You know you have nothing else to give.
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And, um, and I'm sure at the time your ex-wife, she was kind of noticing that you're not present and things like that.
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And like if a wife is listening right now and they're seeing their husband kind of grinding, like that, is there a message that you could tell them?
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That could be helpful so the husband could see that he needs to slow down, like it.
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This is a different context.
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You know the song.
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Stand by your man.
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The pardon.
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Can you repeat that?
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There's a song Stand by your man.
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It's a classic 60-year-old country song.
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Okay, it's a different context, but that is something I would tell for the wives or the supporting partners.
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It's like you know, stand by your man, give him something, even when he doesn't necessarily deserve it.
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But you know he he needs that support yeah, but is there a way that we can, you know, provide them where the slowing down?
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Because that's just was obviously too much for you to work, the six days a week and the grinding?
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At that point, was there anything that could have changed your mind to slow down or to notice that this would be not sustainable?
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Well, I think just helping support individuals and find out how do they need that support?
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Do they need support from time, from better nutrition?
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Do they need support physically, like can I come do certain things?
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Do I need support taking care of the home, children, other responsibilities?
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What can I do to offload your burden?
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You know, because men are taught from a historical standpoint.
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Just take the, it's your problem yeah, like the superman, you know.
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I, I know for scott was the same thing, like, oh, I've got it, I'm just a little overwhelmed, but I've got it, you know, I know for Scott was the same thing, like, oh, I've got it, I'm just a little overwhelmed, but I've got it.
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You know was often kind of yeah, because sometimes I mean I don't want to say it's an addiction, but at least for me I'll speak on my behalf, even though I think this is common with a lot of the male archetypes that I align with was there's this like badge of honor, that like nobody can outwork me and I can just grind harder and it's like, okay, let's see what much I can do.
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But again you're pulling from other parts of you that are being neglected and there's a dark side to that, because you can only pull so much energy and it has to come be fulfilled by other ways.
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And I think that's where the dichotomy comes into place for a lot of men that give too much and now they are incomplete, they are lacking, and they're gonna find ways to either cover it, sedate it, stuff it down or wait for that violent emotional eruption.
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Yeah.
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So when you got your diagnosis and how long were you doing chemo treatments for, did that change your point of view of the grinding when you went back to work after that?
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You know there was, I think, when I got my diagnosis.
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It's interesting because obviously I was scared.
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You know, I'm 31 years old and I've got cancer and I don't know what that means.
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Right, I was stage two, so early enough, and I caught it and, good lesson there was hey, my body was telling me something was off.
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And it took me a four months.
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I went in and finally said, hey, it doesn't feel right, let's check it out.
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But it's not the lesson that I needed to slow down.
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It was more of the, this feeling of like anger, like why me, you know, and anger that I don't have the ability not to work.
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I'm the only income earner in the family.
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You know, I've got debts and responsibility and I have a.
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I have an integrity in the sense that I always pay my debts.
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You know, I don't short people money.
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I pay my bills.
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I.
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That's something I was raised like.
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You got to pay your bills.
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You know, if I don't short people money, I pay my bills I.
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That's something I was raised like.
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You got to pay your bills.
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You know, if you don't pay your bills, you're a piece of you know what.
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So, coming from that it was.
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It wasn't necessarily sadness.
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It's just like I can't take time off and I was angry about that, because I'm angry in the sense that I couldn't care for myself, I think I I mean I essentially took about a week off from work because I had to.
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I had surgery, I was in physical pain.
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I couldn't do my ops.
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I had some great support by my oral surgeon and the doctors around me to at least take over some of the emergent care.
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I couldn't do but going through the chemotherapy which I did for about two months.
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I did two rounds, which was recommended by the oncology team.
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I worked through the chemo rounds.
00:18:26.891 --> 00:18:40.644
I would do my chemo on Thursday and then I would have actually no, I did my chemo on Friday because I was still five days a week then and then I'd have the weekend to kind of recover here a little bit, which sounded like false omen because they injected you with some steroids during your chemotherapy.
00:18:40.644 --> 00:18:43.631
So on your infusion days you feel pretty good.
00:18:43.631 --> 00:18:57.042
The morning after you feel like you just got back from a terrible rave and got drugged, and those are rough weekends and I remember vivid times, especially during the early part of the weeks after the chemo rounds and going into work and I was vomiting between patients.
00:18:57.042 --> 00:19:01.843
I kind of would have to excuse myself when I got to a certain degree, but I worked between them.
00:19:01.843 --> 00:19:03.006
I didn't tell people about it.
00:19:03.006 --> 00:19:08.342
The team was very supportive at the time, um, but I but I brought back on essentially a full schedule and work through it.
00:19:08.763 --> 00:19:10.891
Wow, wow, that's incredible.
00:19:10.891 --> 00:19:12.737
I mean, that's sad that you couldn't.
00:19:12.737 --> 00:19:14.623
You felt like there was no other way.
00:19:14.623 --> 00:19:21.387
You were like, well, nobody else can pay the bills, I have to work, and so you couldn't take that time to truly heal.
00:19:21.387 --> 00:19:25.640
You know that your body needed the rest and I think a lot of men feel that pressure.
00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:33.606
I know Scott felt that when he was one month, you know, where he couldn't work because of his back, and that was really scary for him.
00:19:33.606 --> 00:19:44.192
You know he did have an associate at that time, but still it is very scary and I know a lot of men you know go through that as well and then they think they're going to lose everything you know.
00:19:44.192 --> 00:19:55.717
And so tell me after I know you had dealt, shared your story with suicide ideation Did that come afterwards, after your diagnosis, or what's the timeline?
00:19:56.680 --> 00:19:57.441
No, that was.
00:19:57.441 --> 00:20:01.248
You know, that ended up coming from my personal experience.
00:20:01.248 --> 00:20:14.313
So later on during my career you know, I was married in 2010 and about 2017, I was starting to really have some struggles in my personal marriage.
00:20:14.313 --> 00:20:34.990
You know, this is a deeper conversation I think that we'll have time for, but there was some major struggles and feeling lack of support in many ways and, at a core issue was a real lack of respect, you know, and I think that was probably the nail in the coffin in terms of why I exited my marriage, you know, and that happened in 2020.
00:20:35.010 --> 00:20:39.748
It was the same time when COVID had kind of struck and hit and things had been really bad.
00:20:39.748 --> 00:21:16.840
The year prior, we had the birth of our third child, my son, in 2018, which was a wonderful blessing, but there was definitely some recourse afterwards here, a lot of disconnection as a couple and, going through that time, there was a lot of loneliness that was starting to be experienced by myself and I think when you're in a box in life, you don't necessarily see where you're at, and it actually took some friends on the outside with you, like social posts and whatnot, and would make comments and say you know, marvin, you ever notice that you're always with your kids or you're always alone.
00:21:16.840 --> 00:21:18.786
You know there's reasons behind them.
00:21:18.786 --> 00:21:25.609
I'm not here to to talk negative on my ex-spouse or anything of that nature, but that was something that I had started to realize.
00:21:25.609 --> 00:21:26.913
Yeah, I feel pretty alone.
00:21:26.913 --> 00:21:46.727
I mean, this is a reason why in a lot of marriages and in whatever reasons was, there's a certain level of loneliness or detachment or lack of unity and connection together and there's definitely a disconnection and I didn't understand what was happening necessarily why definitely a disconnection, and I didn't understand what was happening necessarily why.
00:21:46.747 --> 00:21:50.461
And this in 2019 was a timeframe that things really started to take a twist and we were going through a lot of the time.
00:21:50.461 --> 00:21:56.861
We had a new child I was in the process of, I had bought another practice and merged it in.
00:21:56.861 --> 00:22:09.551
Business was going really well now and very busy Building a new home, making a move, and we were without residents between the new build and the old home for several months, bouncing around between VRBOs, rentals.
00:22:09.551 --> 00:22:15.972
We crouched cash essentially on friends of ours home for almost three, four months with a new board.
00:22:15.972 --> 00:22:31.967
So there was a lot of anger around that and just hostility and uncomfortability and that really spiraled down until the end of 2019 and moving to our new home, and we were pretty disconnected and I didn't know what was going on.
00:22:32.099 --> 00:22:46.049
But I felt some things in my heart and I'd gotten to a place where, just when you're in a and you've been here, mel when you're in a relationship and you're disconnected from your partner and you start asking is it, you know, what is it wrong with me?
00:22:46.049 --> 00:22:47.701
We start putting the blame on ourselves.
00:22:47.701 --> 00:22:48.584
I think a lot of people do.
00:22:48.584 --> 00:22:54.825
You know, if you're truly a narcissistic person, you're going to blame the other and say, well, this is this isn't me, it's you Right.
