EP 31: The Truth About Dental Insurance, Debt, and Early Career Burnout

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Welcome back to Not Alone with Melissa Sue Methman.

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Today's guest is Dr.

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Amrita Patel.

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Now, she is a dentist, an author, a speaker, and has been on the council for the ADA and many other councils as well.

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Now, here, what we're gonna touch base on is it's gonna be real, raw, and the truth.

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We're gonna touch base on insurance, mental health, purpose, living a life of fulfillment, and so much more.

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So I'm gonna give the floor here, Dr.

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Patel.

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Thank you.

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Thank you for coming today.

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Yeah, I'm really excited this all worked out time-wise.

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Yes, I know, I know.

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I had it on my calendar that you'd be in town because you live in New York.

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Sioux Falls for now, but New York soon.

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Okay, New York soon.

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And I know I think we got connected just through a mutual friend.

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And so I'm just really curious.

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I really, you know, would love to hear kind of your story, your background, and so yeah, the book can share.

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And I grew up in dentistry.

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My father's a dentist as well.

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He's an endodontist, and I went to dental school and I did a residency in New York and went right into practice with him.

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We built a group of family-owned group practices in Metro New York City.

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So if you're familiar with New York, it's about 30 miles straight north.

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Obviously biased.

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I think it's the best city in the world.

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Um, but I was very involved with uh volunteer leadership within organized dentistry.

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And in that capacity, I chaired the new dentist committee for the New York State Dental Association.

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Uh, got put in front of a lot of rooms of uh new dentists, dental students, residents, which is a pretty vulnerable population, I'd say, that sometimes gets very overlooked when it comes to support and education because you kind of leave the environment of dental school and then kind of get thrust into the world.

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Yeah, I feel they're really not prepared at all.

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You know, at all for the what's the reality, right?

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Yeah, no, I wasn't, and I was in dentistry.

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And so, you know, when my kind of term concluded um doing that, what I realized is that I had this platform in the non-clinical part of my career, which was educating, writing, speaking.

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And so that's really taken off over the last few years.

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I think I've already taken 130 flights this year.

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Wow.

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I know I did 150 last year, and I promised myself not doing that again.

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And here we are.

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But so that's that's kind of me in a nutshell.

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You know, you mentioned New York and South Dakota.

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We talked a little bit about that.

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Um, I was sent to the South Dakota Dental Association a few years ago to do some programming.

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They sent their state's president-elect to pick all the speakers up at the airport, and we got married last January.

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Oh, that's so I have a kind of nerdy dental association love story.

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Um, so my husband is also a dentist, and so I'm kind of like immersed in all of it.

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But, you know, the the profession has given my family and I so much, and I recognize that there was this demographic that felt like it wasn't getting the support that it needed and decided to take some responsibility for it.

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Wow, I love that because I feel the same way about the dental community, and that's why I'm using my voice and try it is a wonderful profession that provides for your family, but also there is some awareness, right?

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That we need to bring to the dentist.

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So I, and especially dental student.

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So, what did you feel that you're teaching dental students that are coming right out of school and the reality?

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Because I know we had associates right out of school, and a lot of them thought, oh great, I'm gonna make this much right out of school, but they don't realize that it takes a while for us to get money from the insurance and get paid.

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So oftentimes my husband would loan them money before until they get onto their feet, you know, and start seeing a paycheck.

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So I think that's not really, you know, taught in dental school the reality.

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Dental school is full of dentistry, right?

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And so there's not that much time in the curriculum left to teach all of that.

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And there are some schools that have been kind of trying to integrate it into the curriculum, but it's there's so many requirements, there's so much that you have to get through that most students are coming out five, six, seven hundred thousand dollars of debt and no real education on how to service that, right?

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And you talked about the cycle of getting paid, you know, the RCM, the when you send a claim, it's not instantaneous, right?

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And if the insurance never pays and the office never pays, you don't get paid.

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Right.

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Which are important questions and things that should be taught and that we should be asking, but no one's really talking about it.

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I love that you bring that up because I know, you know, I could see once I sold the practice, seeing all the numbers, there was so much money that we we never got back, right?

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Because there's a limit amount of time.

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Yep, your timely filing limit.

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Yes.

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So it I think that people don't understand that about insurance.

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I'd love for you to just kind of discuss that the insurance for patients, and also, you know what's frustrating with me with insurance as a dental hygienist is that oftentimes I can't we can't treat the patient, the root cause because it's so based on their insurance thing.

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Well, I'm only gonna follow what my insurance can cover.

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And that's so sad to me, you know.

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I, you know, coming from Canada, I'm not saying that the way they do medical is any better because there's waitlists and all that, but it was more preventative.

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Whereas when I moved here stateside, everything, everyone depends on what the insurance covers.

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And you know, I I remember sitting, there was this wonderful sweet vet in my chair, and they're like, Oh, well, he's not covered for this, not covered for that.

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And I'm like, Oh, he needs an exam, he needs this.

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I mean, he, but they're like, no, the insurance doesn't cover it.

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I'm like, oh my gosh, you know, it it's kind of that you can't get treated, right?

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You know, and I think it's this myth, like you said, that insurance covers everything.

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And so for the viewers, I tell patients that dental insurance is a coupon from the 1970s.

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What do I mean?

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Well, where did it come from?

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It was created by large corporations in the 1970s as an incentive to attract workers.

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Well, what was the average annual maximum in the 1970s?

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$1,000.

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What's the average annual maximum today, right?

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It hasn't changed.

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But what I've really realized is that patients that are purchasing these plans, whether it's from a broker or as part of their orientation at a new job, they're not being explained what they're buying.

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So when they go in and they say, Oh, I have this new job, and you know, I didn't wear my retainers and I really want adult orthodontics.

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And the person in HR says, Well, this plan is the most expensive, it's gonna take the most money out of your paycheck, but it has adult orthodontic coverage.

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What they don't tell them is that adult in insurance world means 18, 21, 26, and then they come to you and now you're the bad guy because your insurance doesn't cover that.

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So it's a complete lack of education, sort of on both sides, but also an understanding that when you get someone that says, I just want to do what the insurance covers, to be able to explain that anytime an insurance pays out, they write it off as a loss.

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It flips that script, right?

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Because at the end of the day, it's about the investment in the oral health that they're gonna make with you.

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Right, so true.

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And seeing it the big picture over time, right?

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So, do you find a lot of practices?

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Because I know for us in Wasilla, Alaska, so many dentists were not seeing either Medicaid, Medicare patients any longer because they were just not almost not making any money, you know, and or oftentimes we get no shows from from them a lot of times.

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And but we accepted them.

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So, do you find that there's a different service that dentists can utilize instead um in-house to make it a little bit better for patients?

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Great question.

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And it's one of the things that I speak on.

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Your in-house membership plans, I think, are so valuable.

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Whether you are looking to transition out of network, um, whether you're purchasing a practice that's not maybe a network, or you've realized that it's you just can't sort of take the best care of patients in the way you want by staying with certain plans, having a good in-house membership plan, I think, is really key.

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And the thing that we realized when we implemented ours, and this is interesting, is take your average patient that you see twice a year for hygiene, x-rays exams once a year, uh, or exams twice a year, x-rays once a year, maybe your doctor is doing a filling or two a year.

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If you look at what's really being taken out of their paycheck versus what they would have paid the office had they been enrolled in a membership plan, sometimes it's a wash.

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And sometimes they're actually getting more money taken out.

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Because what's interesting is as much as everyone is so afraid of maxing out, the data shows that it's really only like 3% of people nationally that max out.

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Most people aren't using the full extent of their benefits.

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Yes.

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Yeah, that's so true.

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Actually, we would notice that, you know, December would get so busy.

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I remember because they're like, oh my gosh, I didn't use everything until the the year rolls over.

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Yeah.

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But they can't get in because we're busy.

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And most of the time, yeah, they don't utilize everything.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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And so that was kind of an interesting experiment where I asked some of the patients that I was very close with or that had been with the practices for a long time, you know, hey, do you feel comfortable sharing this with me?

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And we realized that that was actually one of the ways that we the reasons rather that we designed our membership plan is because it was more cost effective for them to do that.

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And then they didn't have to wait for a pre-auth or a denial or chasing down for a balance.

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It was just care when they needed it, which is really what we wanted.

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Which is almost like a a win for the patient, win for the dentist as well.

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So they don't have to wait to hear back from the insurance and get paid for the the work that they provided.

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And you know, you're you're in dental as a hygienist, you know, your afternoon wipes out, that stinks.

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But now you've got people that are enrolled in a plan that they have paid for.

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Chances are if they've paid for something, there's a Yes, they show up.

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Exactly.

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There's a way less chance that they're gonna pay.

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And how many times if it's paid, like for example, you give something free for someone, like a service.

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They might, for example, personal training.

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You're like, well, it's free, right?

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Sometimes it might be like, Well, I'm too tired, I'm not gonna go.

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Right.

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But if you're paying high dollar,$100 for that personal training, you're gonna show up.

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Yep.

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Right?

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Yep.

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So oftentimes I see that as well because we'd had a lot of no-shows when it was free coverage.

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Yep.

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They would have no shows.

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Yep.

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And but if you're paying for it, so I I like that.

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You know, I hope that more people kind of understand that.

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Yeah, and also because I've always felt that for our front office because you know, people come angry, they have to explain their insurance and they didn't realize what was going on.

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So here I feel with this podcast, we can bring education for the patient side and dentists that are probably starting their new practice, which route to go, right, you know, to start off and thinking about these options.

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Yeah, and again, that I love data, and the data also shows that not everyone is fee for service.

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And if you read dental social media, it'll have you thinking that the only path forward, the only path to be able to be successful but also take the best care of your patients is to be completely out of network.

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And the data doesn't support that.

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Most doctors are networked with at least three PPO insurance plans.

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I see.

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Yeah.

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And now where else, where else are you helping now dentists?

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Yeah.

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So, you know, so much of the other programming I do is for uh new doctors that either are looking to buy practice, um, brand new practice owners is another kind of subset that I really enjoy interacting with.

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And then there are teams, right?

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Because listen, I'm only as valuable as my team, um, you know, kind of the team surrounding me.

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I can't do what I do without the people around me.

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And one of the big questions that we get asked is, well, I've never been a leader before.

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What does that mean?

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You know, I have to set my own policies.

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How do I make sure that what I want to get done is actually gonna happen?

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And talking about what communication is, kind of integrating that into the culture.

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But again, this isn't anything that's really taught anywhere.

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Um, and I think the other thing that really comes up repeatedly is everyone's have everyone has their own struggles.

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You know, social media is a highlight reel of everyone's life.

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You know, I have a very public, uh, open Instagram.

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It used to be private.

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And if you go and scroll back a couple years, you know, 2017, 18, 19, you'd see a girl that was traveling the world and involved in all sorts of leadership positions.

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And I was miserable, Melissa.

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I was miserable and unhappy with myself and felt felt unfulfilled and couldn't figure out what was wrong with me.

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Yeah, like why were you not feeling all fulfilled?

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Even though you were traveling the world, you know, and working with my father and building a business.

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And, you know, I think it was this sense of, you know, and I am the the child of immigrants, my parents are from India, you know, I wasn't married, I didn't have children.

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And so inevitably, when we would be at a dental meeting and everyone was like, Well, how's your how's your kid?

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How's the spouse?

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I would be like staring at my shoes, hoping that they didn't ask me.

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And so then I wore really nice shoes.

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So hopefully the question would be, where'd you get the shoes from?

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That was the distraction technique.

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Oh wow, okay.

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And so much of that is societal pressure, you know, it's what you see.

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But again, not you don't know what's going on in people's lives, right?

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And it took making peace with, you know what, I've worked really hard on my journey.

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I am where I am, I'm gonna trust the plan.

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And walking that path with peace, and literally three days after I made that decision, I met my now husband.

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Wow.

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It was eerie.

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Wow.

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Eerie.

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So once you made peace with it and allowed yourself to be like, no, I I like this path.

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I don't have to be like what the what the, you know, most people say, okay, yeah, you you do your career, you have kids, you have get married, you know.

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But you're like, no, I don't have to follow this, you know.

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No, no.

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And it's hard, I think, when you're being bombarded left, right, and center with those highlight reels.

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And I think especially in the post-pandemic world, it's all become so front and center, right?

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And you compare yourself, right?

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Totally.

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And now everyone's lives fully are online, edited and filtered and perfect.

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And so it becomes even more of a burden.

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And so, you know, so many of the doctors that I talk to, so many of the people that are starting this journey, that's what they come to me with.

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But, you know, I'm not doing enough, or I don't feel like I'm enough, or why can't I this, or why can't I that?

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And a lot of it is like, okay, you need to sit with yourself and decide what you want your life to look like.

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Because as you know, dentists are myopic.

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We miss the forest for the trees all the time, right?

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Like trees and trees and trees, right?

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So we are that's kind of just who we are.

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And so I think it's hard and scary to sit with yourself and think about, you know what, maybe I don't want to be a practice owner.

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Maybe I want to move somewhere that's new, right?

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Maybe I want to go back home.

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Maybe I don't want to be a dentist, maybe I don't want to be a dentist anymore.

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Which is so scary for so many.

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Yeah, you know, maybe I want to explore what else I can do with my degree other than just being a practice owner.

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Because just because you own a practice that doesn't automatically make you successful, right?

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Or or validate you.

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And that piece is is hard.

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And as people that are myopic and often very type A and used to being in control, sitting and letting your control go and letting your guard down with your thoughts is scary.

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It is so scary.

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So scary.

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I always say that.

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I said, spend time because I have a practice in the morning of meditation.

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I need at least an hour before I'm with my family.

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You know, just in stillness in my peace, in my breath work, in my prayer practice, whatever that is.

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So, what does that look like for you when you say it sit in stillness for you?

00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:13.200
Yeah, you know, I think personally for me, my brain is always going at 100 miles a minute.

00:15:13.279 --> 00:15:16.320
And so it is very helpful to get it on paper.

00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:18.080
You know, what's concerning me?

00:15:18.240 --> 00:15:20.879
What is on my plate for today that I think is going to be a challenge?

00:15:21.039 --> 00:15:22.399
What do I need help with?

00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:23.440
Which was hard.

00:15:23.679 --> 00:15:25.120
Because I can do everything, right?

00:15:25.519 --> 00:15:26.000
You can't.

00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:27.120
What do I need help with?

00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:30.960
And a practice that's really helped me is when I start to feel very overwhelmed.

00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:34.720
I take an 8 by 11 sheet of paper and fold it in half the long way.

00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:39.360
On the left hand side, I write down everything that I'm doing right now that's making me feel that way.

00:15:39.519 --> 00:15:43.919
And on the right hand side, I put down everyone or everything that could be doing it better than me.

00:15:44.159 --> 00:15:59.279
And I oftentimes find out that I've taken on things that have been delegated to other people that I'm not making sure are doing it, or maybe things that could be a priority, but not right now, like important, but don't doesn't need to be handled right now, you know.

00:15:59.440 --> 00:16:02.399
And it helps me to organize my thoughts and my life in that way.

00:16:02.559 --> 00:16:07.360
But it's an exercise that I, I mean, do weekly, sometimes daily, and it really helps.

00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:08.240
I can see that.

00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:11.519
I always tell people writing it down, but you're right, prioritizing, right?

00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:11.919
Yeah.

00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:18.240
Because oftentimes what my publisher actually, when I was writing my book, and you know, the editing process, I know you wrote a book as well.

00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:19.759
It's so daunting sometimes.

00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:23.840
But she's like, leave the dishes, leave the laundry, leave, you know, those are not important.

00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:26.000
This is important right now, focus on that.

00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:33.840
Or is it spending one-on-one time with your, you know, a family member or connecting with you for a little bit, you know, just prioritizing.

00:16:33.919 --> 00:16:38.799
I think writing it gets you, especially for the logical mind, yeah, seeing it clearly.

00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:40.240
Like, okay, here's my list.

00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:40.639
Yep.

00:16:40.799 --> 00:16:41.919
Where can I cross them off?

00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:43.200
Where can I delegate?

00:16:43.360 --> 00:16:44.639
That's that's I like that.

00:16:44.799 --> 00:16:46.240
Yeah, that's that's been really helpful.

00:16:46.320 --> 00:16:49.919
And you know, one of our gym coaches said something interesting to me the other day.

00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:52.480
He said, you know, most of us are actually introverts.

00:16:52.559 --> 00:16:53.840
And I was like, Well, how can that be?

00:16:54.000 --> 00:16:56.879
Like you're in these crowded classes, engaging, interacting.

00:16:57.039 --> 00:17:04.559
And he said, Well, you know, extroverts charge their batteries socially around other people, and introverts charge their batteries that's me, yeah, by themselves.

00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:06.480
And I was like, I never thought of it that way.

00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:08.319
Oh, okay.

00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:16.000
Um, and so again, that kind of looking at yourself and figuring out, you know, what are the priorities?

00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:17.839
What do you want your life to look like?

00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:18.640
Who are you?

00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:19.839
What are your values?

00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:23.200
And it doesn't need to be on anyone else's timeline, right?

00:17:23.359 --> 00:17:28.319
Society, the profession, the world, and being okay with that is hard.

00:17:28.559 --> 00:17:29.519
Yeah, it is hard.

00:17:29.599 --> 00:17:37.119
It is hard because as you said a lot of times for anyone, not just dentists starting out their career, you have the pressures of being out of school now.

00:17:37.279 --> 00:17:42.319
I better go make money, and they want to grind and grind and grind and grind, but all the times you'll hit a wall.

00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:43.039
Yeah, right?

00:17:43.200 --> 00:17:43.839
You'll hit a wall.

00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:45.759
Yeah, and then you're no use to anyone.

00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:46.079
Yeah.

00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:46.400
Right.

00:17:46.480 --> 00:17:48.240
And you're completely drained, and now what?

00:17:48.319 --> 00:17:48.480
Right?

00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:51.359
You still have to give of yourself, especially in this profession.

00:17:51.920 --> 00:17:54.319
And at some point you've depleted, and then what?

00:17:54.480 --> 00:17:54.720
Yeah.

00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:55.839
How are you gonna do that?

00:17:56.079 --> 00:18:00.799
Yeah, you kind of lose your light, your passion, and probably not treat your patients the same, right?

00:18:01.039 --> 00:18:01.839
Or your loved ones.

00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:02.799
Your loved ones, right?

00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:12.079
I mean, I know I can be a real raging monster when I haven't had time to sort of decompress or eat, which you vault, which in dentistry, you don't have time to eat.

00:18:12.319 --> 00:18:14.559
No, no, nobody's supposed to call it hangry.

00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:25.279
Like I know what I've got full day, you know, and then I know my husband, he'd have three columns back to back, and you're going around and and you want to delegate so much time with each patient, but you don't have time to eat.

00:18:25.519 --> 00:18:29.440
No, yeah, no, and you physically can't be in that many places at once and also take care of yourself.

00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:31.759
So it's it's very hard.

00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:41.839
And this is a a challenging time to enter our profession, and also I think for our profession, because I don't think you can take care of anyone else until you've taken care of yourself.

00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:42.319
Yeah.

00:18:42.640 --> 00:18:45.200
So, how do you find dentists can incorporate that?

00:18:45.359 --> 00:19:01.440
Like I know I'm trying to coach, you know, dentists to maybe incorporate just nervous system reset throughout the day, some breath techniques, or even let's say you had a patient in your chair and you do a couple breath techniques before you do surgery or procedure.

00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:05.440
If you can calm their nervous system, that they're that's gonna be best because you're so close.

00:19:05.599 --> 00:19:06.319
Yeah, you're right there.

00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:06.960
You're right there.

00:19:07.119 --> 00:19:07.839
Yeah, you know.

00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:10.240
Um, I love this company called Wallaby.

00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:11.759
Um, oh, the blanket.

00:19:12.079 --> 00:19:13.759
The the a weighted blanket.

00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:17.440
I uh I almost brought I had an appointment the other day, my dentist.

00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:22.480
I'm like, oh, I wanted to bring it just to kind of test it out because my kids love their weighted blankets.

00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:22.960
Okay.

00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:34.880
And so if you know, so many people come in with fear and anxiety, but if you could put on this blanket, you know, on them and just calm their nervous system, then they can heal better.

00:19:35.039 --> 00:19:35.200
Yep.

00:19:35.359 --> 00:19:41.440
You know what happens to your, you know, your uh blood vessels and everything else to your nerve for healing.

00:19:41.599 --> 00:19:44.400
If you're in fight and flight, right, you're not gonna heal a property.

00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:45.839
Right, that's stressed out state.

00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:46.799
No, totally.

00:19:46.960 --> 00:19:51.039
Um, well, guilty, I maybe buy shoes in between stressful patients.

00:19:52.960 --> 00:19:54.160
Expensive habits.

00:19:54.880 --> 00:20:01.119
Um, no, but I what I tell people is is that recharging and unplugging looks different for everyone, right?

00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:11.119
So for when I log on social media at 5 a.m., which I probably shouldn't be doing that early, if someone has already gone and done a half marathon and is drinking their green juice, that stresses me out.

00:20:11.519 --> 00:20:18.079
Like that's great for you that you are committed and that's how you kind of recharge, but I can't, right?

00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:20.799
And for the longest time I was like, oh, I need to be a morning exercise person.

00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:22.400
I need to make my celery juice.

00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:24.160
And if I haven't done that, my day is gonna be a failure.

00:20:24.319 --> 00:20:25.279
Figure out what it is, right?

00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:27.680
Sometimes for some people it's sitting with their thoughts, right?

00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:29.599
You're journaling, exercise.

00:20:29.759 --> 00:20:36.720
I mean, I think there was that huge study that was just released where like exercise is a single biggest predictor aside from good relationships of longevity, right?

00:20:36.799 --> 00:20:41.920
The deadlifts you do at 30 help you pick up the suitcase at 80 is what I read somewhere.

00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:48.960
Uh, you know, whatever that is, you know, reconnecting with family if you're far away, or like I said, carving out time to even just go for a walk.

00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:55.839
It doesn't have to be anything um strenuous and connecting with your thoughts and nature around you uh is important.

00:20:56.000 --> 00:21:00.240
You know, for the people that tell me that they don't have time to do that in the morning or the evening, do it at your lunch break.

00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:00.480
Yeah.

00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:02.640
You know, one of your patients cancels, that stinks.

00:21:02.720 --> 00:21:03.920
Go take a walk around the parking lot.

00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:04.079
Yeah.

00:21:04.160 --> 00:21:07.920
I used to do laps around the grocery store parking lot because my car charged.

00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:09.440
I mean, it's just whatever, right?

00:21:09.680 --> 00:21:15.279
Yeah, switching something else instead of strolling, like you said, which is a you know, keep comparing yourself, it's causing more anxiety.

00:21:15.440 --> 00:21:15.759
Yep.

00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:25.839
And it's hard because now we're both very much more involved on social media, you know, but I have to be mindful of like, okay, a little bit of time, but take away so I'm not comparing because that causes an anxiety.

00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:26.160
Yeah.

00:21:26.319 --> 00:21:27.440
So we're moving that.

00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:38.880
And yeah, what what I notice as far as nature time, especially when we live in very busy cities, like you're, you know, you were in New York, you know, now coming back, even though it's Gilbert, still busy.

00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:47.119
I was just on this island, this private island, filming documentary series, and it's so much stillness, so much clarity.

00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:49.279
And I was such a peace.

00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:54.319
You're, you know, it by the ocean, grounding every day, doing nervous system reset there every single day.

00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:56.240
So I noticed it when I flew back here.

00:21:56.400 --> 00:21:57.359
I'm in my home.

00:21:57.680 --> 00:21:59.279
I felt so anxious almost.

00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:00.079
I need to get out.

00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:02.559
And I remember telling my kids, okay, we're gonna go on a hike.

00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:04.720
We need I need mom needs nature.

00:22:04.960 --> 00:22:12.480
And there's something about that, just going back into nature just to kind of find uh kind of regulate your nervous system again.

00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:14.480
Yeah, my husband is way better at that than I am.

00:22:14.559 --> 00:22:17.039
He like he hiked Camelback this morning because it's across the street.

00:22:17.119 --> 00:22:17.599
Oh, I love that.

00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:18.160
He loves that.

00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:21.119
I'm like, I don't know if I'm gonna get up my hands and he's a climb up the mountain.

00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:25.359
But you know, I'll walk, do loops around our uh the golf course or whatever it is.

00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:31.920
But that's what I tell people that you know, don't feel guilty because other people are recharging or unplugging in a different way than you.

00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:33.200
Figure out what works for you.

00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:34.799
And that's again different for everyone.

00:22:35.039 --> 00:22:46.960
Yeah, and I'd like to kind of come back, pivot back to how you met your husband was at the point where you were had to be at a place where you that self-love, you had to be okay with being you.

00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:47.359
Yep.

00:22:47.599 --> 00:22:50.319
And it's so interesting because that's kind of my path too.

00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:58.079
The more that I was at a place where I was no longer kind of lonely, I was just at peace with myself at such a good place.

00:22:58.160 --> 00:23:02.079
I just had finished my book, and literally that's how I met my boyfriend afterwards.

00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:13.440
So I kept on going, oh, you know, it literally will just happen in the right time, but you almost that right time a lot of times that self-reflection where you're kind of at peace with yourself.

00:23:13.759 --> 00:23:21.839
Yep, and it's hard to kind of appreciate the value of that, but also believe um that that's true.

00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:27.440
You know, and I know I mentioned this to you earlier, but one of the things that I always go back to is Steve Jobs, right?

00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:32.079
Went to Stanford, dropped out, right, founded Apple, got kicked out of Apple, founded Pixar, came back.

00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:32.880
We all know his story.

00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:39.200
He did a commencement speech in 2005, and he talks about three lessons that he wants to kind of impart to the audience.

00:23:39.279 --> 00:23:42.240
And one of the things he says is that you can't connect the dots looking forward.

00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:51.839
You can only connect them looking backwards, and you have to believe in, you know, something, your gut, karma, whatever it is, that when you connect the dots, they're gonna connect somewhere, right?

00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:53.519
But you can only connect them that way.

00:23:53.680 --> 00:23:55.759
And it's so impactful, right?

00:23:55.920 --> 00:24:07.839
To think that, you know, had I gotten married earlier or had children or been a practice owner by myself and not worked for my father, in which case I could not have just gotten up and moved to South Dakota, right?

00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:11.279
That would have been things that I would have had to handle and I would have had responsibilities.

00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:16.960
Whereas in my journey, like I told you in the late 2010s, I was sitting there being like, well, all these other people are doing this.

00:24:17.119 --> 00:24:17.759
Why not me?

00:24:17.920 --> 00:24:18.480
Why not me?

00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:19.279
Why not me?

00:24:19.519 --> 00:24:24.160
And now I turn around and everything lined up like the way it was meant to.

00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:25.279
Meant to, yeah.

00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:25.680
Right.

00:24:25.759 --> 00:24:28.720
And so just believing in that, I think, is very powerful.

00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:29.519
Yes, yeah.

00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:31.279
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

00:24:31.359 --> 00:24:36.000
Yeah, just believing in the process and trusting that that's the way you're gonna be going.

00:24:36.319 --> 00:24:36.640
Correct.

00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:37.279
And yeah.

00:24:37.599 --> 00:24:37.920
Correct.

00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:43.599
And you know, so much validation I think we seek from other people and in other things.

00:24:43.759 --> 00:24:49.440
And when you start to realize that nothing is gonna be able to give you validation like you're gonna be able to give yourself, right?

00:24:49.920 --> 00:24:52.319
I think it releases a lot of tension and stress.

00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:53.200
Yes, yeah.

00:24:53.359 --> 00:24:58.160
I mean, I think that's it, you know, if I think back of my kids, they need so much of my validation.

00:24:58.559 --> 00:25:06.160
Outside their teachers' validations, their friends, like my son who'll be like, oh my gosh, I I he plays five football.

00:25:06.240 --> 00:25:12.319
I want to just work out more and be buffed because I want to be really fast for my team and I want to be really good.

00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:17.519
But I said, Well, you are good, but you have to believe that yourself and not wait for the outside validation.

00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:21.440
I think that trickles up from like childhood to adulthood.

00:25:21.599 --> 00:25:23.119
We so want to be validated.

00:25:23.200 --> 00:25:29.039
I know for me, being young 20-year-old women, I so wanted validation from men, like, oh, feel attractive, feel this.

00:25:29.279 --> 00:25:37.680
But I I had to feel attractive and beautiful and smart and you know, but not seek that from everybody else.

00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:38.079
Right.

00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:39.839
And that that's a hard lesson.

00:25:39.920 --> 00:25:43.200
I think for a life, you know, for many, it's a lifetime, right?

00:25:43.359 --> 00:25:44.000
Yeah, right.

00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:45.599
And the what's the alternative, right?

00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:55.279
The alternative is decisions that I would have made that maybe would have aligned me with what society was doing or what I thought I should be doing, but ultimately would not have led me to the place that I'm at now.

00:25:55.599 --> 00:25:57.039
Probably more of a lonely life.

00:25:59.279 --> 00:26:01.039
It's just angel of a man.

00:26:01.279 --> 00:26:10.880
I mean, I and I you know, I think about the me 10 years ago, and I wish I could go back and tell that girl, like it's gonna be okay.

00:26:11.759 --> 00:26:16.079
It's gonna be okay because and it was so hard, Melissa, to keep up that facade.

00:26:17.440 --> 00:26:29.519
And I I hope that my story when I tell it integrated into the knowledge that I give around the country, especially to you know, to those newer doctors, um resonates with someone because it was that was hard.

00:26:29.759 --> 00:26:33.359
And I I wish I would have given myself grace and been kind to myself.

00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:35.039
Yeah, kind to yourself.

00:26:35.359 --> 00:26:36.799
Well, yeah, those new grads too.

00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:39.759
I met a couple as well in a retreat that we did in Sedona.

00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:41.759
A couple seven dentists went up there.

00:26:41.839 --> 00:27:03.519
We do breath work, nervous system reset, and being able to guide them throughout their process once they get into practice and making sure they make time for themselves throughout that process and who they can find community like yourself that can guide them along, you know, that have done it and what's worked for you.

00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:05.119
And I think that's so important.

00:27:05.279 --> 00:27:13.119
Do you have like a group uh, you know, where at this point or how I I don't, I'm frankly just kind of all over the country.

00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:22.799
I think most people do connect with me via social media or or sort of in person, uh, which has been really, really great, but you know, I'd like to sort of make it more official.

00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:27.119
I just at this point like to be as open and accessible as I can.

00:27:27.279 --> 00:27:32.160
So at the end of my lectures, I give out my personal cell phone number, I give out my personal contact information.

00:27:32.319 --> 00:27:37.359
Um because I think I didn't have that, and people would be like, Well, you have your dad.

00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:43.119
And I said, No, no, no, no, but this is the person that I've trying to be I've been trying to get validation from for my entire life.

00:27:43.279 --> 00:27:44.640
That's very different, right?

00:27:44.799 --> 00:27:50.480
That's not someone I'm gonna go to and be like, Dad, I feel like I'm not good enough because I haven't gotten married yet.

00:27:50.640 --> 00:27:53.599
Because I was always afraid that he'd turn around and be like, Well, yeah, why have you know?

00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:56.400
Because I'm sure they they were getting the same questions too from their friends.

00:27:56.480 --> 00:27:58.880
Like, yes, okay, I'm you're the oldest daughter, right?

00:27:59.119 --> 00:28:00.480
Like what what's she doing?

00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:05.279
Um, but that, like I said, that's that's sort of what I try to do.

00:28:05.359 --> 00:28:13.200
And I would tell anyone that watches this um that maybe feels the same way that I did, that there's a path.

00:28:13.279 --> 00:28:18.079
You're on a journey, and everyone's journey is is different and unique, which makes it beautiful.

00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:23.440
Um, and don't ever let anyone or anything make you feel less than just because your journey doesn't align with theirs, right?

00:28:23.599 --> 00:28:26.799
Not every doctor is out there killing it and making millions of dollars, right?

00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:31.920
Not everyone is buying offices right out of grati uh right out of kind of dental school.

00:28:32.079 --> 00:28:33.279
Everyone's on their own journey.

00:28:33.359 --> 00:28:43.680
And if you even look at my social media, I mean, there's so much that went on behind the scenes for me to get to be where I am, but it's just a continuously evolving journey, right?

00:28:43.759 --> 00:28:51.279
I I I'd like to say that I um am trying to be teachable because that's what I tell people to do.

00:28:51.359 --> 00:28:52.960
You know, you just don't know what you don't know.

00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:54.799
And you learn from everyone you meet.

00:28:55.279 --> 00:28:55.759
Oh, yeah.

00:28:55.839 --> 00:29:07.759
I keep learning all the time, and that's why I love reading books, podcasts, because I feel I even last week with these 15 authors, all so gifted in different ways, I felt like I was the best university.

00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:12.240
I learned from so many of them, and I will continue to learn and grow.

00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:17.440
And and in that same way, it's okay that I'm very different.

00:29:17.599 --> 00:29:23.680
Actually, the theme of last week was everyone like, oh, we feel like we're really weird on the outside of this group.

00:29:24.319 --> 00:29:32.720
But finding your community, finding the people is so important that can help guide you along when you're you know, that could be clouded over.

00:29:32.960 --> 00:29:36.799
Yeah, and you know, I both of my best friends from middle school live in California.

00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:49.920
And I am fortunate in that I actually talk to them probably most days, and one in particular on the phone, I think every day, and it's been you know 18 years since the first year of dental school, and it doesn't matter kind of where we are, we've maintained that connection.

00:29:50.319 --> 00:29:54.000
But you know, if you see someone that's doing something that's interesting, reach out, right?

00:29:54.160 --> 00:29:59.279
If you meet someone at an event or socially or wherever, you know, introduce yourself.

00:29:59.359 --> 00:30:03.440
The worst that They can say if you're asking a question or want to have a conversation is no.

00:30:03.680 --> 00:30:07.039
Um, but best case, you get to learn from their successes and their failures.

00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:09.599
Yes, yeah, yeah, which is so important.

00:30:09.759 --> 00:30:10.000
Yeah.

00:30:10.400 --> 00:30:10.640
Yeah.

00:30:10.880 --> 00:30:12.079
How did they get to the top?

00:30:12.160 --> 00:30:16.559
And when they fell through, so many people have burnouts trying to grow their business.

00:30:16.720 --> 00:30:20.000
And so they're now sharing their story, which I think is so important, right?

00:30:20.160 --> 00:30:20.319
Yeah.

00:30:20.640 --> 00:30:21.519
To never get to that point.

00:30:21.920 --> 00:30:24.720
I'm glad that it's happening more now because it wasn't before.

00:30:24.880 --> 00:30:30.400
It wasn't in the late, you know, 2010s when I was feeling that way, or even when I graduated dental school in 2011.

00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:33.680
It wasn't um as prominent as it is now.

00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:39.279
And I think as terrible as the pandemic was and is, that's kind of where this all came from.

00:30:39.440 --> 00:30:41.920
This sense of, hey, we're all stuck behind a screen.

00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:47.440
So people started to share and then sometimes overshare, which was bad, but also good, right?

00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:52.960
There were so many great podcasts, there was so much great programming that was born out of that because that was the only way we had to connect.

00:30:53.119 --> 00:30:53.359
Yes.

00:30:53.440 --> 00:30:53.680
Right.

00:30:53.759 --> 00:30:56.160
And dentistry specifically is so relational.

00:30:56.240 --> 00:30:58.960
You know, it's like a half a degree of separation, all of us.

00:30:59.200 --> 00:30:59.440
Yes.

00:30:59.680 --> 00:31:05.599
And so I think that in that sense it was really good and has brought a lot of this into everyone's focus.

00:31:05.920 --> 00:31:10.960
Yeah, instead of like being competing against each other, you know, more how we can collaborate.

00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:11.519
Collaborate.

00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:21.680
Which we see that a lot now with you know, the the group practices and DSOs and different options out there now for dentists are being feeling that they're doing it all on their own.

00:31:21.759 --> 00:31:24.799
Well, maybe they can kind of partnerships and whatnot.

00:31:24.880 --> 00:31:25.599
So Yeah.

00:31:25.839 --> 00:31:34.960
And you know, I think that goes back to there's lots of ways to be successful in this profession, and not all of them involve solo practice ownership, uh, kind of like what was thought before.

00:31:35.119 --> 00:31:37.119
Not all of them involve even practice ownership, right?

00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:43.200
There's plenty of dentists that do really, really well, you know, are very accomplished in their own right and they've found their own path.

00:31:43.359 --> 00:31:46.799
But remember, success and accomplishment means different things to everyone, right?

00:31:46.880 --> 00:31:51.440
So what I think is me having a successful day is probably different than what you do.

00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:51.839
Yes.

00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:52.240
Right.

00:31:52.319 --> 00:31:55.519
So measuring it that way, I think is probably the wrong metric.

00:31:55.680 --> 00:31:59.359
But there's so many paths with this degree and in this profession, no matter what degree you have.

00:31:59.920 --> 00:32:00.400
No matter what.

00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:05.359
But I like that finding your own purpose and that gives you that light, that fire that ignites you.

00:32:05.440 --> 00:32:07.279
But you have to almost, like you said, write it down.

00:32:07.359 --> 00:32:08.559
Like what brings you that light?

00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:20.960
Like for me, be able to give back to people and shine their light, be able to see their confidence and that they can write a book, they can start a podcast, they can achieve whatever they want.

00:32:21.039 --> 00:32:22.720
And I'll be there to cheer them on.

00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:31.759
Like that gives me so much light, you know, be able to uh provide them hope as well, you know, when they're kind of in the dark, because I know how that is.

00:32:31.839 --> 00:32:35.119
When you're in the dark, it's like you can't see the love that's around you.

00:32:35.440 --> 00:32:37.440
You know, you can't see the next step forward.

00:32:37.519 --> 00:32:38.799
It's so overwhelming.

00:32:38.960 --> 00:32:47.440
So to be able to hold someone's hand and shine a little bit at that beacon of light is it for me gives me, you know, fire, you know, almost like energy.

00:32:47.680 --> 00:32:48.400
It's their purpose.

00:32:48.480 --> 00:32:53.200
And you know, I remember when I first met my my now husband, and he was married for 25 years.

00:32:53.359 --> 00:32:57.440
He's got adult children, uh, and just being like, you know, you seem like you have it all.

00:32:57.599 --> 00:33:03.519
Like I'm so confused because I again was in that place where I thought, okay, I'm good, you know, this is my path.

00:33:03.839 --> 00:33:06.160
But it was just very jarring to me.

00:33:06.240 --> 00:33:12.480
And then when he kind of explained his path, and he got married very young, and you know, like many people do, they just kind of grew apart.

00:33:12.559 --> 00:33:14.400
And I was like, I just I don't understand.

00:33:14.559 --> 00:33:17.119
And he was like, Well, a relationship, you have to water it, right?

00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:20.079
It's like a flower, it'll die if you don't water it and nurture it.

00:33:20.240 --> 00:33:24.960
Um and he said, Look, I knew that I was doing great things in the profession and the community.

00:33:25.119 --> 00:33:25.839
I was a good dad.

00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:27.599
I thought I was a good husband.

00:33:27.759 --> 00:33:36.319
And the person that I wanted to be my partner, the person that I wanted to celebrate the joys and also work through the failures with, I didn't have that.

00:33:37.279 --> 00:33:39.839
And I was like, you know what, that's an interesting concept.

00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:46.640
And I was like, that means that all the people I've been comparing myself to and all of the relationships I've been like, oh gosh, I wish I had that.

00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:48.000
Yes, idealized.

00:33:48.240 --> 00:33:48.559
Right, right.00:33:48.799 --> 00:33:49.039


Yes.00:33:49.279 --> 00:33:51.039


Oh, and he was like, Yeah, you would have never known.00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:54.160


This was my high school sweetheart, you know, this is the first person I dated.00:33:54.880 --> 00:33:55.599


You never known.00:33:55.839 --> 00:33:56.559


Yeah, you would never know.00:33:56.799 --> 00:34:08.239


Well, that's like for me, you know, we often use the cover of my book, that picture for advertising, you know, and you think of it picture perfect family, you know, we got a boy and a girl, but I know where we were at then.00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:12.079


We were we're I was so lonely, my husband was very depressed.00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:18.960


But a lot of people are like, oh, look at them, you know, they're doing fantastic in the dental practice and they travel, and we don't know, right?00:34:19.119 --> 00:34:21.199


So that's why comparison is the worst.00:34:21.440 --> 00:34:26.239


And and and you're right, with the relationship, you have to so nurture it.00:34:26.320 --> 00:34:35.360


Oftentimes we get busy uh growing our business or with our children, but we forget to kind of connect in a relationship and water that relationship.00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:39.760


So was that scary for you to kind of decide to get married then, you know?00:34:40.079 --> 00:34:40.400


Oh yeah.00:34:40.639 --> 00:34:43.599


Well, and you know, I was older, whatever that means.00:34:43.679 --> 00:34:47.199


And so I had my own identity and I had my own life and my own priorities.00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:54.079


And so it was scary and hard to say or you know, to think about, okay, so what happens when I put someone else first?00:34:54.239 --> 00:34:55.920


Because I was first all the time.00:34:56.159 --> 00:34:57.599


And what happened what does that look like?00:34:57.760 --> 00:34:59.519


And does that mean does that make me vulnerable?00:34:59.679 --> 00:35:02.480


Melissa, is he gonna take advantage of it?00:35:02.639 --> 00:35:03.840


You know, is he gonna leave me?00:35:04.000 --> 00:35:08.000


And I to this day, I will sometimes be like, Why why do you love me?00:35:08.079 --> 00:35:10.079


And he'll look at me and be like, What is your trauma?00:35:10.239 --> 00:35:11.360


Like, what what is that?00:35:11.519 --> 00:35:12.800


Where is that coming from?00:35:13.199 --> 00:35:16.880


And it happens less and less, and it's taken a lot to work through.00:35:17.119 --> 00:35:23.039


But to answer your question, yes, it was scary, and it was very much like I can't believe this is happening.00:35:23.440 --> 00:35:24.639


It's almost too good to be true, right?00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:25.440


1000%.00:35:26.079 --> 00:35:32.000


We uh he proposed like three months after we started dating, and we got married a year later.00:35:32.480 --> 00:35:46.880


Um and it was scary and hard to say, I'm gonna be vulnerable and honest and real with you, and you're not going to hurt me or take advantage of me or um you know try to tear me down for it.00:35:47.039 --> 00:35:47.760


That was hard.00:35:47.840 --> 00:35:48.079


Yeah.00:35:48.239 --> 00:35:50.719


Um like well, the fear of like, oh, he might leave me.00:35:50.800 --> 00:35:53.599


But it's too good to be true, like, you know, almost self-sabotage, right?00:35:53.679 --> 00:35:54.159


Right, right.00:35:54.400 --> 00:35:59.280


Because then I was like, well, geez, I mean, if this is what your relationship was like, like what chance do we have, right?00:35:59.360 --> 00:36:04.239


Like, or you know, if if everyone's really kind of or most people are have this facade, that was hard.00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:10.800


And like I said, you know, a partnership very much to me is like, look, sometimes I'll carry 80% and all you can give is 20, right?00:36:10.880 --> 00:36:15.599


Sometimes maybe you're doing all the heavy lifting because I can't, and it's that back and forth, and and that was hard.00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:16.559


Yeah, and that was hard.00:36:16.639 --> 00:36:19.119


And a lot of it is probably communicating that, those fears, right?00:36:19.599 --> 00:36:21.760


Communicating, having those hard communications.00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:36.559


I know I can relate so much to this, you know, going back into a relationship that was uh really hard and a lot of fearful, like, well, too good to be true, or I don't know, or or for me was a lot losing my freedom, you know, losing kind of like, oh, where I'm at now with my family.00:36:36.639 --> 00:36:39.280


I'm doing good and what that looks like as well.00:36:39.440 --> 00:36:42.400


You know, am I gonna lose that freedom, that peace, that calm?00:36:43.280 --> 00:36:50.000


But just allowing to release those fears, you know, it takes constant work and communication in a relationship as well.00:36:50.320 --> 00:36:50.480


Yep.00:36:50.800 --> 00:36:53.039


Yeah, and you know, we call it use your words.00:36:53.920 --> 00:36:56.159


Use your words, use your words, use your words.00:36:56.400 --> 00:36:57.039


I like that.00:36:57.280 --> 00:36:59.440


He was like, Listen, I never did in my marriage.00:36:59.519 --> 00:37:06.880


I, you know, just kind of assumed that this was the as good as it was gonna get, and that everyone was kind of plodding along the way I was, and so I just stopped using my words.00:37:06.960 --> 00:37:08.960


And he was like, You make me use my words.00:37:09.039 --> 00:37:12.960


Yeah, and so now he'll call me out and be like, All right, use your words.00:37:13.119 --> 00:37:15.280


You don't need to solve this problem by yourself.00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:16.239


Um like that.00:37:16.480 --> 00:37:20.719


But you know, in in the last few years, right, I've come to Sioux Falls, we're going back to New York.00:37:21.039 --> 00:37:24.320


Um, just a big period of flux and trust.00:37:24.559 --> 00:37:25.840


And that's still hard.00:37:26.400 --> 00:37:27.840


It's still a work in progress.00:37:28.079 --> 00:37:32.639


Um and it's is, I think, part of the journey.00:37:32.800 --> 00:37:44.880


It's part of the learning and the growth that you know what, letting your walls down, letting someone else in, giving up some control, being raw and honest, especially as a dentist who's used to being in control and used to being the leader is always gonna be hard for me.00:37:44.960 --> 00:37:46.719


Yeah, you know, but that's that's a me thing.00:37:46.960 --> 00:37:58.719


And perfectionist, you know, you work on minute little I've already ordered the markers in the right color to write the addresses on the packing boxes for boxes that aren't due to be shipped until March.00:37:59.360 --> 00:38:01.440


But you know, that's a that's a me thing.00:38:01.519 --> 00:38:06.400


And I've also learned just kind of personally and professionally, you don't project onto other people, right?00:38:06.559 --> 00:38:10.880


You don't get in your head and go zero to a hundred and assume the worst all the time.00:38:11.360 --> 00:38:15.599


It sounds like he's very much part of that growth of you to letting go the control.00:38:15.679 --> 00:38:19.679


But you also he gives you that sense of safety, almost that peace, right?00:38:19.840 --> 00:38:20.000


Yeah.00:38:20.159 --> 00:38:20.400


Yeah.00:38:20.480 --> 00:38:28.320


I mean, Jeff is my best friend, and being married to my best friend is such a it's such a fun journey, right?00:38:28.480 --> 00:38:39.760


So we can hang out and tease each other and you know play with the dog and and kind of goof off, but then we can also have, you know, date night or or quiet time together, um, or be in a big group or not.00:38:39.920 --> 00:38:45.119


So I I wake up every day thankful that I waited.00:38:45.679 --> 00:38:49.360


And like I said, I wish I could go back and tell that girl it's gonna be okay.00:38:49.519 --> 00:38:51.199


You don't have to kick yourself this much.00:38:51.440 --> 00:38:52.239


Oh, I love that.00:38:52.320 --> 00:39:01.440


I almost get all goosebumps when you say that because oftentimes when I uh you know do breath work, I always say, go back to that little girl, you know, sit beside her.00:39:01.599 --> 00:39:02.480


What would you say to her?00:39:02.719 --> 00:39:03.360


Or let her talk.00:39:03.519 --> 00:39:04.960


This she has something to say.00:39:05.599 --> 00:39:08.639


And oftentimes, yeah, what would she say to you now?00:39:08.719 --> 00:39:09.119


You know?00:39:09.599 --> 00:39:12.239


You know, I think she'd say that she was scared.00:39:13.119 --> 00:39:13.760


I was scared.00:39:13.840 --> 00:39:15.119


I it's scary.00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:16.800


Um scared to be alone.00:39:17.039 --> 00:39:23.199


Scared to be alone, scared to let anyone else in, scared to get hurt again, um, scared that I wasn't gonna be enough.00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:34.000


Uh but I think what I would tell her is that everyone's on their own journey, and what you think is reality for is probably not, right?00:39:34.079 --> 00:39:35.599


Or is probably not the way it looks.00:39:35.840 --> 00:39:40.719


And it's okay to be scared now, but trust your path and your journey.00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:48.800


And Melissa, when I tell you it lined up perfectly, I mean New York City girl and South Dakota boy were two people that were never supposed to meet, right?00:39:48.880 --> 00:39:51.039


Like we were never, never gonna meet.00:39:51.199 --> 00:39:57.280


And we had crossed paths at so many dental meetings before where he was there and I was there, but 3,000 other people were too, right?00:39:57.360 --> 00:39:59.519


Like a Chicago midwinter or an ADA.00:39:59.920 --> 00:40:03.760


And so the way that it all came together lined up perfectly.00:40:03.840 --> 00:40:12.960


Um, and like I said, if I could go back and sit with that girl, I think she would probably tell me she was scared, and I would tell her that she's gotta walk this journey because it's the it's it's the one that she's on.00:40:13.119 --> 00:40:14.079


Yeah, and trust her process.00:40:15.519 --> 00:40:18.559


Keep trusting her heart, what she wants to do, right?00:40:18.719 --> 00:40:18.800


Right.00:40:18.960 --> 00:40:24.639


Yeah, like you know, you're not you're not gonna marry this person or this relationship isn't gonna work out, or don't try to force it, right?00:40:25.039 --> 00:40:27.760


Or like you don't need to go and buy your own practice, right?00:40:27.920 --> 00:40:38.880


Or, you know, the time that you're taking out to give back to your profession, that's a good idea because that was the platform and the springboard for now the non-clinical portion of my career where I get to, you know, write and educate all around the country.00:40:39.119 --> 00:40:40.719


Yeah, I think that's fantastic.00:40:40.800 --> 00:40:48.880


Because I think for women, especially they're wanting to be, you know, do build their career that they think of the ticking clock for kids too, and that pressure.00:40:48.960 --> 00:40:52.320


And sometimes they're like, Well, I'm with this person, I'm 30-something.00:40:52.559 --> 00:41:01.119


Well, I'm just gonna have children with this just man, to be honest, like that's you know, happens often, might not be the right person, but because of the clock and everything else.00:41:01.280 --> 00:41:13.440


But if we could just release that and just trust, they might have met that perfect, you know, that that match for them that's a bit more calm and more aligned with their values, you know, if they just kind of trusted.00:41:13.679 --> 00:41:18.320


Yeah, and you know, not just a romantic partner, but also, you know, business partners, colleagues, friends.00:41:18.639 --> 00:41:19.119


Yes.00:41:19.280 --> 00:41:23.599


Um, and I think from every negative experience, there's always something to be learned.00:41:23.760 --> 00:41:25.119


That's always something to be learned.00:41:25.199 --> 00:41:27.599


And I wish I could go back and give that girl some confidence.00:41:27.840 --> 00:41:28.960


Yeah, some confidence.00:41:29.199 --> 00:41:30.480


Oh gosh, yes, me too.00:41:30.639 --> 00:41:31.280


Yeah, right.00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:33.280


Like you are you are enough.00:41:33.760 --> 00:41:35.840


Like, look at yourself in the mirror when you wake up.00:41:35.920 --> 00:41:42.559


You are beautiful, you know, you you are intelligent enough, and there is nothing that you have to prove to anyone else but yourself.00:41:42.880 --> 00:41:44.400


But yourself, yeah, so important.00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:46.079


Yeah, I love that message.00:41:46.320 --> 00:41:50.800


Now, just to kind of go back to, you know, the the councils, the ADA and all that.00:41:50.960 --> 00:41:57.199


Are they are you seeing them being more open to talking to about mental health in the dental profession?00:41:57.760 --> 00:42:14.960


You know, I think maybe not on a national level, but I think it's happening a lot more grassroots, just because there are so many things that the dental association nationally is doing in terms of preserving and protecting our profession, as well as trying to take the best helping us take the best care of our patients possible.00:42:15.119 --> 00:42:18.960


I do see some of it, but most of the movement I see is more grassroots.00:42:19.039 --> 00:42:22.960


It's locally, it's statewide, um, it's in smaller group settings.00:42:23.119 --> 00:42:27.920


And sometimes I think honestly, for me, that's the biggest um ROI, right?00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:29.840


Like that's where I get to have the best conversations.00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:32.000


That's where people feel the most safe.00:42:32.800 --> 00:42:34.960


Um and that I do see increasing.00:42:35.280 --> 00:42:37.599


So you do see it coming into the school programs.00:42:38.400 --> 00:42:50.000


Um I think the schools have become more open to allowing conversations, especially from people coming in with some of these state dental associations or uh student groups kind of hosting things.00:42:50.079 --> 00:42:51.119


I I do see that.00:42:51.440 --> 00:43:07.360


But I still think that it's gonna be very challenging to make sure that that specific demographic is um protected and educated in the right way, which is like I said, frankly, why I keep doing what I'm doing, you know, some of what of what you're doing as well.00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:12.079


And and I do see a lot more people taking responsibility for that, which is very empowering to me.00:43:12.159 --> 00:43:19.440


And you know, when I get up in front of an audience, I tell them the best gift that I could ever get is if you turn around and now you're in front of the audience, right?00:43:19.519 --> 00:43:22.880


We go five years down the line and now it's you because I'm not gonna do this forever.00:43:23.039 --> 00:43:23.119


Yeah.00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:26.559


So you know, empowering passing the baton, right?00:43:26.639 --> 00:43:27.760


In the tele office, right?00:43:28.000 --> 00:43:28.239


Yes.00:43:28.559 --> 00:43:29.440


But same thing, right?00:43:29.519 --> 00:43:35.440


Passing that off and and hopefully kind of fostering that sense of you, your story is valuable, you can do this too.00:43:35.599 --> 00:43:37.440


Um, um, let's kind of continue that change.00:43:37.599 --> 00:43:38.239


Let's continue that.00:43:38.800 --> 00:43:39.679


Yeah, I like that.00:43:39.840 --> 00:43:40.559


Well, that's beautiful.00:43:40.639 --> 00:43:42.639


And so, how can people find you on social media?00:43:42.800 --> 00:43:44.800


Yeah, so I'm super accessible on Instagram.00:43:44.880 --> 00:43:45.280


It's Dr.00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:46.559


Amrita Patel.00:43:46.639 --> 00:43:48.880


Um, I do have a LinkedIn, I have a Facebook.00:43:49.039 --> 00:43:53.039


Uh, my best friend from dental school that I mentioned to you and I are starting a podcast.00:43:53.280 --> 00:43:53.920


Ooh, you are.00:43:54.159 --> 00:43:54.400


We are.00:43:54.639 --> 00:43:58.480


It's called Project Confidence, D-E-N-T-S dental.00:43:58.719 --> 00:43:59.679


Oh, I like that.00:43:59.840 --> 00:44:00.239


Yeah.00:44:00.639 --> 00:44:01.280


Uh Dr.00:44:01.440 --> 00:44:03.039


Diana Noen is her name.00:44:03.119 --> 00:44:05.119


She came up with the name and she is just brilliant.00:44:05.280 --> 00:44:08.320


So she is the chair of pre-doc clinics at UCSF.00:44:08.639 --> 00:44:09.760


I'm very proud of her.00:44:09.840 --> 00:44:13.760


Um, and she has been by my side since the first day of orientation of dental school.00:44:14.079 --> 00:44:15.679


Her last name is N, mine is P.00:44:16.000 --> 00:44:19.199


So we were sitting across from each other over our mannequin heads.00:44:19.519 --> 00:44:23.360


And, you know, like I said, she's just been by my side through the last 18 years of life.00:44:23.519 --> 00:44:26.079


And so we are going to be launching shortly.00:44:26.159 --> 00:44:40.480


But what we realized is that, you know, the conversations that we've had through our journey, kind of private practice, associateship, academia, her husband was in the military, you know, organized dentistry, all of it, these conversations we're having would probably be valuable to others for others to hear.00:44:41.199 --> 00:44:52.079


And so we kind of pulled our audiences and got a lot of positive feedback, especially from that zero to five year out group, which, like I said, I think is probably the one that needs a lot of this information the most.00:44:52.239 --> 00:44:57.199


And so we're going to record it kind of conversationally as a conversation between two best friends.00:44:57.360 --> 00:44:59.199


And uh, we're gonna be launching shortly.00:44:59.280 --> 00:45:00.000


So we're really excited.00:45:00.159 --> 00:45:00.880


Project confidence.00:45:01.440 --> 00:45:04.079


Oh, I can't wait to share it and listen to it.00:45:04.239 --> 00:45:05.920


I think that's definitely very needed.00:45:06.079 --> 00:45:06.960


Yeah, I love that.00:45:07.119 --> 00:45:08.800


Well, thank you so much for having me.00:45:09.280 --> 00:45:10.559


Yeah, it was fantastic.00:45:10.800 --> 00:45:12.400


And so, where's your next speaking?00:45:12.480 --> 00:45:12.960


Where are you going?00:45:13.360 --> 00:45:25.280


I am going to uh upstate New York in a few weeks uh to do a women's event where we're gonna be talking patient communication, time management, conflict resolution, and then five days later I will be in Las Vegas with the Nevada Dental Association.00:45:25.519 --> 00:45:26.000


Okay, yep.00:45:26.559 --> 00:45:28.719


And Cheryl Steve at one of them at some point.00:45:29.519 --> 00:45:30.639


That'd be fantastic.00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:32.320


Well, thank you for joining us.00:45:32.400 --> 00:45:41.280


And if you feel that episode could reach somebody else that you know, uh please share and like and subscribe, and we'll see you soon.