EP 21: The Invisible Line of Grief: A Conversation Between Two Widows

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What happens when two widows meet for the first time after texting for over a year through grief, michaela Allen and I will have a raw and powerful conversation about suicide, loss, raising children and what healing looks like.

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I welcome Michaela Allen.

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She is a luxury wedding and event planner, a powerhouse raising three children a toddler, a five-year-old and a 17-year-old niece that she's taken under her wing.

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Because every time I hear of a parent losing their significant other to suicide, I feel it to the core of my heart and I get full goosebumps.

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That happened to me when I remember hearing about Twitch, which Stephen Boss and Allison Holkin when he died by suicide.

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It was only eight months after I had lost Scott in March 2022.

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And it was still so raw of the pain, the pain that my children felt.

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I wanted to just give them all a big hug, and that's exactly how it feels now.

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Every time I hear that, every time someone reached out, say I know, I have a friend, I have a friend who has lost their husband, their wife, to suicide.

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Now, this is how Michaela and I met.

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It was actually on social media.

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One of her friends had reached out to me, have heard my story and my heart and my passion.

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She reached out saying that her friend lost her husband and she has two young ones to raise now on her own.

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She felt that we needed to connect and somehow I know it's that invisible thread as suicide survivors that brings us together.

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There's a knowing of the pain that we go under and that what our children go under as well.

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So today is the first time that I meet Michaela in person.

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We've tried many times to connect but with our busy schedules and mothering and businesswoman it just never aligned.

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But I think there's a reason.

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We just actually needed to create this episode today for all the other suicide survivors or any other widows.

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I was a widow and checking the widow box at 42 years old, michaela Allen was only 30 years old.

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Now you feel very alone because the only other widows that I knew they were in their 70s, 80s, 90s.

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I had no one my age.

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As a widow.

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It felt very lonely and so today I welcome you here, michaela.

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I just so many emotions and I know it's that invisible thread that we just see each other.

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I see you.

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I see you, you know just through social media and I'm just in awe as well as what you're doing for your children being there through their grief your own, but also you're a businesswoman.

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Yeah, I mean you are gifted.

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Oh, thank you, you are gifted.

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I have seen your events worldwide that you do and I can't wait to have an excuse to have an event you are incredible, so welcome.

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Thank you, and I know there's so many people that we will touch today with our story.

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Yeah, I'll just tell you it is an honor to be here with you and I feel, yeah, just lucky to be able to share my story with you in a safe place, but also just with somebody who actually understands it.

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And we're, um, yeah, I'm really excited for how we can hopefully help and touch so many people with our just us talking yes, absolutely I.

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I do want you to start.

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I actually don't know anything about your husband, your story, other than you lost your husband.

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Yeah, can you go back of you know, maybe even years prior, or your story how you guys met and who he was, you know?

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yeah, so, uh, we at the time were living in northern california, sonoma.

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Uh, technically I say I met him at school, um, but the truth is we met at a bar.

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I was already working full-time, um, and for me my career was everything.

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And so throughout high school and really it wasn't until my senior year meeting him, I told myself I was not going to date, he was my first boyfriend.

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And so that night at the bars I met him.

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Even I'll backtrack I technically saw him in class that night and it was the one night my best friend and I, Katie, she said can we act like seniors for one night?

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Can we go out to the bars tonight?

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It's the first week of school?

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I said, sure, so I see him in class and I call her, and I was like I just saw the most handsome man and she's like, really, what's his name?

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I said I don't know, but I'm telling you right here now he's going to be my future baby daddy.

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And she was like you're crazy.

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But that night at the bars he came up to me, asked to buy me a drink, called my mom the next day and said the same thing I'm going to marry this man one day.

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And from that moment on, we were together.

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Truth be told, it wasn't until recent months that I really shared like what happened in those years of us early on together.

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We were probably together about a year and a half before he had proposed we got married, but really from night one of us together.

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He was very verbally, mentally and physically abusive for many years, but you would have never have known it.

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I wanted to be loved and so for me it's hard because now I look back at our story and there's so much and so many times I should have walked away, knowing my own self-worth and whatnot, but I didn't and I didn't have the courage to, and I did not share with anybody at that time truly what was happening Got married.

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So that was 2015 when we met.

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At that point we both graduated, started working, like I said, and then it was really 2017, we got married.

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My son was not born until 2020.

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And even at that time his drinking was pretty heavy.

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It was actually the reason why we moved to Arizona.

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My mom and her side of the family all lived out here.

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It was going to be my very first overnight trip for work.

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I got invited to Texas and COVID during that time events.

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You weren't doing events, but it was just kind of like a little thing.

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We got to go and do.

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I got to go tour a venue all outside this is out in Napa and when I came back he was so drunk by halfway through the day he forgot to feed our son, who at the time was only a couple months old, and so when I got invited to go to Texas for this one overnight, I knew I couldn't leave him with him, and so at that time I had called up my mom and also his mom, who lived about two hours away from us at the time, and I said what do I do?

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I want to go, and normally I would have canceled my plans to cater to him, to allow things to keep happening.

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And my mom said do you want your career?

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It's crazy, because now I look back at these moments and where I see where my life has transformed into and I'm so thankful certain steps brought us to where we are, despite the outcome of his decision, and so I turned off my location.

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He didn't know and I brought our son on a plane, dropped him off to my mom, got on the next flight to Texas.

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I told him immediately, once we landed where we were, but I thought at that moment I was choosing my career and I thought our family was going to be over.

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I did the one overnight, flew back to Arizona and my whole family is together at my grandfather's and I'm just watching my family parent each other's kids in just like the village.

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That was here, and I called him and I said we me and your son are moving to Arizona.

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He said are you now?

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I said yeah, and if you want your family, you are too.

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And that day day he was actually about to, the next day, accept a new job and he decided not to.

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And he decided we moved to Arizona a month later and, uh, so that was.

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You've been here four years.

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How many years is this 2021?

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I'm like.

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I can't do math.

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Um 2021, uh, may 2021, we moved here, um, and at that time, even when we first moved here, I remember that first fourth of july, he was so drunk he punched a hole at my grandfather's house and um, at that point we've already done interventions.

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There's been countless times again like I should have walked away, do?

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you?

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Did you ever?

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Did you ever talk about what was his childhood like?

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Yeah, numbing I.

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You know, I'm always curious yeah, he never met his dad, um, and for him, he was never taught.

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Mental health is something you truly work at, um, and also how to overcome it, and so, for him, drinking became.

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He started drinking and smoking at 13 years old oh wow, um, and people surrounding him would say better the walls than my face.

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And it wasn't that I didn't see those sides of it.

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It just never that I said it was okay.

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I just would always be more thankful.

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I got the apology at the end, and so for me, I was probably the first person ever to tell him about therapy.

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I've been in therapy I don't know 20 years of my life now.

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My mom was a therapist before she passed, and so, yeah, I think for him, it just he was just truly I don't think he ever knew how to receive love, um, and unconditional love, which was really what I gave him, um and so yeah, so us being here, um, and kind of uh, yeah, that first year was him still drinking, and it was until February of 2022, february 6th.

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That night was the last night he ever drank, and that was actually really the first time in our and so we were together almost 10 years, married almost eight at that time, and so at that point, it was really the first time I ever thought he was capable of suicide.

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He had told me there was times, years before me, given his own family, things that had him think it could have been a possibility.

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But it was that night.

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I remember looking at my mom and I said he's not coming home and I was terrified, like it was truly that moment that I thought this could be it.

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Um, and next day he came home and it was actually one of my close friends who I called that night because my son's maybe wasn't even a year uh, he was a year, year and a half.

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Um, I knew I couldn't be driving around trying to go and find him with my son in the back seat, so I had called up one of my friends and it was the first time as a man showing up and seeing him that he knew he couldn't hide.

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And it was then, at that point, that I opened up to my two best friends, their husband and wife, and said this is really the truth of what's been going on in our marriage.

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Anybody else in our lives who had seen glimpses or known things had all had one told me to walk away.

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And it was the first couple who ever said we are going to hold you accountable and we will love you, but you are going to be held accountable for your actions and what you do from here and from February 7, 2022,.

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He was sober and it was truly a decision for him to be sober for himself, and so he was sober about two and a half years and, truly, from that moment, we became different.

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We didn't get pregnant with our daughter until she was born, 2023.

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Um and um, I didn't think we were going to have her.

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Um, I thought there was just no way I wouldn't bring a child into this world.

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I never thought children could fix anything.

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Um, but he really changed and he went to therapy.

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We went to therapy together.

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He was open to therapy yeah, he was, and so he started to just just grow and so he chose to end his life on June 13th of 2024 and kind of leading up to that, we were the healthiest we've ever been.

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The communication, how we would talk through issues or problems, or what it's just genuinely we changed.

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It was at that point that I actually thought like we can do this, we're gonna, we're gonna.

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It's not the fairy tale.

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I never thought my life was gonna be a tale, but I thought the reasons why I stayed were actually going to happen and getting into kind of those months and where I saw him at that time it was just very disconnected.

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It didn't quite make sense.

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My mom had passed in November, eight months before he did, and that was a big catalyst for him.

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He really struggled because my mom was probably the only one who ever really saw everything for us and what we were and she loved him despite everything.

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And when she passed he didn't know how to support me, but he also didn't know how to support himself.

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He had said your mom loved me in a shorter amount of time than most people have in my life and it was just hard and so disconnected.

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From that January he had torn his Achilles and I watched him as a man just really struggle, not being the father he wanted to be, not being able to play with our son, hold our daughter and just get through life.

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He hated that.

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I had to do things for him.

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But come that couple months before May, we went on a trip to Mexico with my family in honor of my mom and I just couldn't see him fully just appreciating life for what it was and he was telling me really it was because of work, he wasn't happy with work.

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So I'm like, quit, work, I love my job and I recognize that's what brings me so much joy is because I love what I get to do for my couples.

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And I was like, quit, I'd rather you be happy, let's figure out something else for you.

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Why don't you and the kids travel with me this summer?

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And let's just we'll figure it out together.

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That's what he had told me was we'll figure it out together, and I believed we always would.

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Um, and so come that day, we were that week packing to move into a big, beautiful home.

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Um, like I said, our son he was four at the time, my daughter wasn't even yet a year and a half.

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I had a big meeting that morning, zoom.

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So I had asked him can you please take the kids to school and then can we pack a quick box before?

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We both were going to physical therapy at the time.

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And I remember exactly that he took the kids to school and he comes back and one of the things I had asked in one of our check-ins that we were doing I said you know, something that would be really small, that would mean a lot to me, is if you made me coffee.

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You know I want our son to see.

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It's a small thing and what I would really love, could can I ask you to start making me a cup of coffee?

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Um wasn't always very keen on doing it sometimes, but, um, that morning he came into the office.

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We shared an office because when my mom had passed a few months before that's when we took in my niece she was 15 at the time and she was living with my mom.

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So we were sharing our office and I just thought, thought like how I was so appreciative.

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I was just like thank you so much.

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We go downstairs and we start packing boxes.

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We're supposed to have movers in two days and again I'm just seeing him kind of like that week, just not excited about the move.

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I'm like what do you mean?

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This is beautiful, like look at how happy our kids are.

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What's going on?

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And actually that week, two days before, I remember sitting there with him and being like you know, I kind of want to do a check-in with you.

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I'm seeing you not being excited.

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I'm not seeing the motivation.

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Are you okay?

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Is there anything I can do to support you?

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And he said I promise this is just work.

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Okay, like you know, why don't you?

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You know, reach out to my uncles, go to the casino, go to the gun range?

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Why don't you?

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You know, whatever it is, I know you haven't been at that point.

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He probably stopped going to therapy for a couple of months Again, since my mom it was just a hard thing Did he ever talk about his grief with your mom.

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Really more so.

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Just he had struggled a lot with his relationship with his mom and so, just trying to process it, it was the closest thing to losing a parent.

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That he had had at that point.

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And so, but he just reassured me again it's just work.

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I promise I don't like moving, it's change, it's this.

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I'm like okay, you know, whatever it is, I need you to figure out what's something that could bring you joy.

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So if that's going for a drive, whatever it is, let's do something, because I'm seeing you actively not being great.

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And I actually told him that day.

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I said I'm worried you would drink again.

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I thought that was my biggest worry at that time.

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And so, yeah, like I said, coffee packing boxes, and we actually I remember distinctly, kind of, where I'm sitting.

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He's on the other side of the couch as you and I said you know what's crazy, I wonder if we'd be talking about having another kid right now if we didn't have my niece.

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He goes, you know, maybe I don't know.

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Okay, so go upstairs.

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I'm going to go jump to a shower.

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He's hopping on a work call.

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I'm going to go physical therapy.

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I'm going to go physical therapy.

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He's supposed to be getting there when I'm supposed to be leaving.

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That's our game plan.

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And so I, yeah, I go to physical therapy.

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And, funny enough, that day the physical therapist we were going to was about to propose to his girlfriend that weekend, given what I do.

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He was asking me you know all the things.

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And he's like well, how did Michael propose?

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So I tell him and oddly enough, I get a text from Michael mid-conversation talking about how he proposed to me, and he just writes I love you and not even seconds later I respond I love you more.

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Um, I didn't know that was when he was choosing to end his life, and so, exactly that, and I finished physical therapy.

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He's supposed to be there and I'm like, huh, that's kind of weird.

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And I look at his location, because that's what you can do now, and he's at the Target near our house.

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I'm like that's odd.

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I'm going to go drive there.

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Maybe he's dumping extra boxes at the dumpster or whatever it is.

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And so it's just weird.

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I had this just gut feeling something's wrong.

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So when I pull up and I see a ton of cop cars, I just thought we had joked about it when we were dumping a couple boxes a couple days before.

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He's like you know, you could get arrested for this.

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And I was like, oh, I didn't know.

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So when I see these cop cars I was like, oh my god, this is real, you could actually get arrested.

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It.

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Just it didn't register in my head that something's actually wrong.

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But I knew in my gut, when he wasn't where he was supposed to be, something was wrong.

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That wasn't like him.

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Um, so exactly that I pull up and these, I walk up to these line of cops and they said excuse me, can I ask what's going on?

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That's my husband's car.

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And they said how do you know he's here?

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I said, well, he's not where he's supposed to be.

00:21:30.311 --> 00:21:32.144
We're supposed to be at physical therapy together.

00:21:32.144 --> 00:21:34.590
And he said ma'am, I'm going to need you to sit down.

00:21:34.590 --> 00:21:39.608
And they said we're right now waiting for the drone to come in.

00:21:40.991 --> 00:21:48.647
They can't identify what's happening, but they got a call from the business inside and that there's a man asleep in his car and we think your husband has committed suicide.

00:21:48.647 --> 00:21:51.006
And I'm like what do you mean?

00:21:51.006 --> 00:22:01.112
So same friend who I had called that night, same Skyree, to go to when he was driving drunk and whatnot.

00:22:01.112 --> 00:22:05.903
I called him immediately and I said I don't know what's going wrong, but I need you to get here right now.

00:22:05.903 --> 00:22:07.527
Um, and he did.

00:22:07.527 --> 00:22:14.565
And um, fortunately, when they opened up his car, I saw everything.

00:22:14.565 --> 00:22:20.740
They didn't block anything, um, and yeah, and so at that moment.

00:22:20.740 --> 00:22:22.163
First he didn't have a pulse.

00:22:22.163 --> 00:22:23.085
He did have a a pulse.

00:22:23.085 --> 00:22:24.647
They raced him to go to the hospital.

00:22:24.647 --> 00:22:27.594
I'm my friend's driving racing to go to the hospital.

00:22:27.594 --> 00:22:29.688
I'm just like what's happening?

00:22:29.688 --> 00:22:31.326
I don't have any answers.

00:22:33.020 --> 00:22:34.884
My niece was home that day.

00:22:34.884 --> 00:22:37.550
Middle of the day, again, my kids went to school.

00:22:37.550 --> 00:22:38.333
He dropped them off.

00:22:38.333 --> 00:22:41.723
So I call her and I said Kamiya, I don't know what's going on.

00:22:41.723 --> 00:22:45.288
Did Uncle Mikey say anything to you before he left the house?

00:22:45.288 --> 00:22:46.910
No, I didn't even know.

00:22:46.910 --> 00:22:47.371
He left.

00:22:47.371 --> 00:22:52.195
What's wrong, checking the ring camera to see when did he leave the house?

00:22:52.195 --> 00:22:54.983
What time?

00:22:54.983 --> 00:23:02.611
All the things, and truly it was a quick decision and it's interesting.

00:23:02.611 --> 00:23:07.231
I think back to that day often.

00:23:10.942 --> 00:23:19.788
But when I had got to the hospital, they had pronounced him dead once he arrived and my aunt, who owns the therapy practice that my mom had worked for, actually just kept saying I don't understand.

00:23:19.788 --> 00:23:20.550
I don't understand.

00:23:20.550 --> 00:23:23.881
She goes today.

00:23:23.881 --> 00:23:26.508
A grown man made a decision and I've had to sit with.

00:23:26.508 --> 00:23:27.310
At first.

00:23:27.771 --> 00:23:34.423
It took a long time to get to where I'm at now with my grief journey because, as I'm sure for you, it's just why.

00:23:34.824 --> 00:23:35.345
Just why.

00:23:35.425 --> 00:23:37.210
I just kept asking like why now?

00:23:37.309 --> 00:23:47.093
Why not the hundred other times when things were level 10, why not in you know, screaming, yelling, fights or whatever it may have been like?

00:23:47.093 --> 00:23:47.753
Why now?

00:23:47.753 --> 00:23:49.503
Why when we're finally going to make it?

00:23:49.503 --> 00:23:52.692
Why when it's we're here, we have these beautiful kids?

00:23:52.692 --> 00:23:53.561
I don't understand.

00:23:53.561 --> 00:23:57.769
Like I love, I adore you, I have proven my loyalty.

00:23:57.769 --> 00:24:01.909
Like I don't understand this, in those first few months it just kept being the why now?

00:24:01.909 --> 00:24:04.196
And then it started to hit me.

00:24:04.196 --> 00:24:14.767
A couple months later, this was his sooner, and then it was when when I say his sooner, this was always going to be the end of his story, and then it became a.

00:24:14.767 --> 00:24:16.829
Now I truly understand.

00:24:16.829 --> 00:24:19.535
He thought he was doing this for us.

00:24:19.535 --> 00:24:22.164
He was always going to be broken.

00:24:22.164 --> 00:24:26.354
There was never going to be the amount of unconditional love that me and the kids could give him.

00:24:26.354 --> 00:24:41.065
It was never going to make him feel whole, and so it's weird now on this side to be like I'm thankful that it's now, versus when my son is graduating college or right before my daughter getting married one day.

00:24:42.086 --> 00:25:02.106
Yeah, and while I wish there was always one more day that would help or would have changed, where he could have gone to therapy, done something more proactive to take care of his mental health, if this was the end of his story, I am thankful my kids never got to see him drinking.

00:25:02.106 --> 00:25:04.717
My son doesn't remember that time of his life.

00:25:04.717 --> 00:25:05.480
He was so little.

00:25:05.480 --> 00:25:11.094
Right now, the memories for my kids are of a loving, devoted most.

00:25:11.094 --> 00:25:13.077
He was an incredible father to them.

00:25:13.077 --> 00:25:17.374
Truly, that's what I also want them to know and believe, because it's what I believe.

00:25:17.374 --> 00:25:18.616
It's what's the truth.

00:25:18.616 --> 00:25:25.636
Who we were before he got sober could not have happened if we didn't have had our kids.

00:25:25.636 --> 00:25:30.042
And so it's hard Now, as I'm sure for you.

00:25:30.042 --> 00:25:33.919
You go through days where it's great and you're empowered and this is the life I'm going to live.

00:25:33.919 --> 00:25:40.740
How wonderful it is to do this for my kids, and there's moments of like, but this isn't the way it was supposed to go.

00:25:40.740 --> 00:25:40.961
Yeah.

00:25:41.730 --> 00:25:50.290
Yeah the dream, the dream, the dream that you always hold on to, right with your, your husband, as he was now sober and going to therapy.

00:25:50.290 --> 00:25:56.323
There was so much hope, this new beginning, and you're truly shocked and blindsided.

00:25:56.323 --> 00:25:57.816
You know, you were doing the check-ins.

00:25:57.816 --> 00:26:01.451
I mean you're doing everything right and I think that's so important for people to hear that.

00:26:01.451 --> 00:26:03.557
Yeah, because I don't know about you.

00:26:03.557 --> 00:26:09.854
But so you have your personal own question after a survivor yeah let's do the whys and what else you could have done.

00:26:10.214 --> 00:26:19.977
But you're also did you have to answer everybody else's question like what else we could have done, or I felt like I was bombarded, like I wish I would have known, like the depth did you know?

00:26:20.298 --> 00:26:21.763
yeah, yeah, and it's just like.

00:26:21.763 --> 00:26:28.739
Well, of course, if I would have known that was yuck, I would have called the cop, like, caught him, brought him straight to be in a 72 hour, like myself.

00:26:28.739 --> 00:26:36.597
I would have never have hesitated if I genuinely had thought that was even a question in my, in me, like it, just so.

00:26:36.597 --> 00:26:39.102
No, the questions I mean they still come.

00:26:39.102 --> 00:26:52.617
I think for me those first few months I was so scared to answer, to talk, to let anybody be around me and my kids, because I was so scared of what they might overhear, what just all the emotions.

00:26:52.617 --> 00:26:57.934
But it wasn't truly, and it was kind of the start of this year that I was like you know what?

00:26:57.934 --> 00:27:00.079
This is our truth.

00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:01.442
This wasn't our decision.

00:27:01.442 --> 00:27:03.311
There was no shame in our role in this.

00:27:03.311 --> 00:27:11.022
All I can do for my kids now is to move forward and show them life can still be beautiful despite this loss.

00:27:11.022 --> 00:27:13.951
Yeah, doesn't mean that you can't still have love for your dad.

00:27:13.951 --> 00:27:16.679
It's not that I still don't have love and empathy for him.

00:27:16.679 --> 00:27:22.700
And I think that's probably where I've got the most negative feedback lately is just how can you?

00:27:24.383 --> 00:27:26.633
I had one person say how can you celebrate him?

00:27:26.633 --> 00:27:29.961
I I'm not celebrating him, I'm not celebrating his decision.

00:27:29.961 --> 00:27:34.990
I am acknowledging there was a deeply hurt man.

00:27:34.990 --> 00:27:43.698
I am appreciating the change he was able to make for himself and for our family and we would have the steps and things of moving to Arizona.

00:27:43.698 --> 00:27:46.861
Being here, we would not be where we are.

00:27:46.861 --> 00:27:51.545
I think about if we were still living in California by ourselves.

00:27:51.545 --> 00:27:53.946
We had no family or friends within two hours of us.

00:27:53.946 --> 00:28:00.551
How much more isolated I would have felt there, losing him there, than here One.

00:28:00.551 --> 00:28:02.439
He would have never stopped drinking there.

00:28:03.971 --> 00:28:06.077
Yeah but it's a choice daily to move forward.

00:28:06.218 --> 00:28:19.740
Yeah, absolutely Every day, and I love that you, you know, gotta be now and show that, even through grief, to not feel guilty, that you can make room for joy, yeah, and happiness, and you can be happy even though there's an extreme loss.

00:28:19.740 --> 00:28:35.803
And also, I know, yeah, there's so many people like, well, because I celebrate scott, yeah, all the time too, you know, even though there are, you know, you talk about mental abuse, there was some of that as well, yeah, and but I am celebrating his true heart in his core his soul.

00:28:35.869 --> 00:28:36.652
That I remember.

00:28:36.652 --> 00:28:45.114
But there was so unresolved pain from early childhood that he couldn't see himself or remove that veil to see himself.

00:28:45.114 --> 00:28:48.561
And also, you talked about, uh, receiving love.

00:28:48.561 --> 00:28:51.193
He was such a giver but, yeah, he couldn't receive it.

00:28:51.193 --> 00:28:56.713
I guess that wasn't safe for him and I feel that's probably a parent thing from early on.

00:28:56.713 --> 00:29:04.297
Yeah, he, he so, but he never went into doing inner child work, all the things that we, you know probably have done as well.

00:29:04.297 --> 00:29:12.478
And and you know you made a good point as well we have similar similarities that in the beginning I was so young when I met.

00:29:12.478 --> 00:29:13.901
Scott was 23.

00:29:13.901 --> 00:29:14.642
How old were you?

00:29:14.803 --> 00:29:19.839
I was barely just turned 21 when I had met him, and so you talked about.

00:29:19.880 --> 00:29:28.123
You just wanted to be loved and that was so me, but he wasn't emotionally available even then to give me the love that I so crave.

00:29:28.123 --> 00:29:32.737
So I thought, well, if I just love so hard, I'll get it, I'll get it back.

00:29:32.798 --> 00:29:48.564
Yeah, it'll all work, and it's like yeah, for me, I mean now again, reflecting looking back my upbringing my mom sang every Sunday in the church and so for me I was just unless you do one of these 10 things, you stay, you work through it.

00:29:49.390 --> 00:29:56.876
And so for me at 21, well, he wasn't doing one of those 10 things, but it didn't make it okay.

00:29:56.876 --> 00:30:00.380
And so I think, yeah, it's a journey.

00:30:00.380 --> 00:30:03.356
It definitely is, but it doesn't.

00:30:03.356 --> 00:30:04.862
That's why it's hard.

00:30:04.862 --> 00:30:17.698
I feel like I'm grieving two people at times the man who hurt me so deeply before for many years, but also the man who I really actually believed we were going to have a future, yes, and so there's still, there's two, that is too.

00:30:17.738 --> 00:30:24.579
Yeah, I still remember, you know, with my psychologist that I worked with her for almost, uh, dr Amber Rochelle's.

00:30:24.579 --> 00:30:33.140
I worked with her for eight months or so and, yeah, I had to process almost okay, split it up like the abuse you work through that, the anger.

00:30:33.140 --> 00:30:52.536
Actually, I had me even write this angry letter to Scott because, also, as he left us this way, I had to take now gosh, he leave me with so much repair yeah there was a lawsuit, there was taking the office, there was, um, you know, the children's pain I'll never be able to remove, no, you know.

00:30:53.116 --> 00:31:02.817
And so there was just anger there, but also so much love and grief, and so I can definitely understand that and what I mean.

00:31:02.817 --> 00:31:09.806
I know for me to even have space for grieving was really hard in the beginning.

00:31:09.806 --> 00:31:14.080
So for you, how have you made time for your own grief?

00:31:14.410 --> 00:31:16.198
Yeah, it's hard yeah.

00:31:16.451 --> 00:31:19.432
It's definitely hard Beginning months.

00:31:19.432 --> 00:31:22.300
There was just none like truly none.

00:31:22.300 --> 00:31:37.317
My son those first few months he would just like sit there until 3, 4 o'clock in the morning and I'm just watching him sitting on the edge of the bed just like physically unwell and not knowing at 4, how do you describe your emotions?

00:31:37.317 --> 00:31:38.240
Well, technically he was 3.

00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:39.556
He turned 4 a month later.

00:31:39.556 --> 00:31:44.673
He doesn't even have words to describe, let alone process.

00:31:44.673 --> 00:31:49.459
He doesn't get it.

00:31:49.459 --> 00:31:51.221
My kids in the beginning are just so scared.

00:31:51.221 --> 00:31:52.741
You're not going to come back.

00:31:53.143 --> 00:31:57.207
You know you're not going to get my son had that so bad, so bad.

00:32:02.329 --> 00:32:02.851
But what I do for work?

00:32:02.851 --> 00:32:03.290
I exclusively travel.

00:32:03.290 --> 00:32:04.192
So how do I get my four-year-old to understand?

00:32:04.192 --> 00:32:07.396
So now, even if you ask my now daughter she's almost two and a half years old, even her what do we always say about mommy?

00:32:07.396 --> 00:32:13.505
Mommy comes back and I want them to know I want to come back, I will always come back for them.

00:32:13.505 --> 00:32:23.272
But also, at the same time, I don't lie to my kids and I want them to understand there is only so much in this world you can control, and you can.

00:32:23.292 --> 00:32:26.655
Even today, on our way to school to drive, I said all right, I can only control myself.

00:32:26.655 --> 00:32:27.777
You know, and we do positive affirmations.

00:32:27.797 --> 00:32:30.819
On their way to school to drive, I said all right, I can only control myself, you know, and we do positive affirmations on our way to school.

00:32:30.839 --> 00:32:32.582
Yeah, you know, and it's because I want them to understand.

00:32:32.582 --> 00:32:38.007
Yes, my intention is to always come back to you, but I don't know what this world's going to bring.

00:32:38.007 --> 00:32:41.932
I don't know if I'm going to get into a car accident or what may happen.

00:32:41.932 --> 00:32:44.477
So I don't want to lie to them, you know, but I also.

00:32:44.477 --> 00:32:45.198
It's hard.

00:32:45.198 --> 00:32:50.651
It's holding space for them, but how do I hold space for my own grief?

00:32:51.452 --> 00:32:57.604
Those first few months didn't happen and I recognized I went into survival mode.

00:32:57.604 --> 00:32:59.134
I still have to travel, I have to do all those things.

00:32:59.134 --> 00:33:07.991
I wasn't feeling really my feelings and again kind of going back to the beginning of this year, was okay, this is the choice of I need to live.

00:33:07.991 --> 00:33:10.799
So I sat there and I said what are things that make me happy?

00:33:10.799 --> 00:33:12.516
How can I build in that time?

00:33:12.516 --> 00:33:16.580
And so it has become a thing for me to be really intentional when I travel.

00:33:16.580 --> 00:33:24.819
I will come in a night earlier, or meaning like to wherever I'm traveling to a night earlier, or stay an extra night and take myself to dinner alone.

00:33:24.819 --> 00:33:31.151
I've gone to a handful of concerts by myself, and it's in the beginning.

00:33:31.151 --> 00:33:35.862
It was very uncomfortable, but now it is some of my, like, favorite things I get to do of.

00:33:35.862 --> 00:33:38.075
Okay, what do I want to eat tonight?

00:33:38.576 --> 00:33:54.103
I don't have to check in with anybody, I don't have to care for anybody and like what brings you, yeah, what truly genuinely brings me joy, and so, uh, still not great at it, um, because when I am here again it's I'm in mom mode.

00:33:54.103 --> 00:34:02.702
Everything I do is for somebody else, whether if it's my clients or my kids, um, but I try to just be intentional, so lately it's okay.

00:34:02.702 --> 00:34:04.634
What are things I want to be doing that make me happy?

00:34:04.634 --> 00:34:06.518
Wednesday women shoot free.

00:34:06.518 --> 00:34:13.541
I go try and take myself to the gun range, or I've been trying to take some country line dancing classes.

00:34:13.561 --> 00:34:14.382
Oh my gosh, we need to go.

00:34:14.382 --> 00:34:16.699
I just went for the first time last Saturday.

00:34:16.699 --> 00:34:29.251
I saw your post about going to Morgan Wallen at Big Alley and I'm like, oh, I really want to go, but I don't know if I can make it on Friday and my mom's been away.

00:34:29.251 --> 00:34:30.034
Okay, we'll have to go and then.

00:34:30.034 --> 00:34:30.356
And then I went.

00:34:30.356 --> 00:34:32.041
I was like, well, I'll just go find a place, go line dancing.

00:34:32.041 --> 00:34:36.556
And I went to, uh, denim and Diamond or something yep at first from the outside I'm like, oh, where am I going?

00:34:36.797 --> 00:34:37.458
but I go in there.

00:34:37.478 --> 00:34:40.416
It's a beautiful dance hall, so we'll have to go because.

00:34:40.536 --> 00:34:46.278
I feel dancing is such a a trauma relief as well, and it brings me so much joy to dance too.

00:34:46.298 --> 00:34:50.153
Yeah, and and I've only gone twice okay that's a new one.

00:34:50.153 --> 00:34:52.880
I'm like trying, but it's again, it's okay.

00:34:52.880 --> 00:35:07.972
What is something that's pushing me outside of my comfort zone to help me grow, but it also just makes me happy and finding that space like that alone time is huge and I love that you're allowing that, even though your kids yeah, you know you're getting that mom guilt right oh, 100 every time.

00:35:07.972 --> 00:35:08.851
But you know how that you're allowing that, even though you're kids.

00:35:08.817 --> 00:35:09.583
You know you're getting that mom guilt right, oh, every time.

00:35:09.583 --> 00:35:15.309
But you know how important you're going to show up going back home if you've had those couple days to yourself.

00:35:15.309 --> 00:35:23.141
Because when I moved here after my husband passed too, I was like, okay, I kept on saying I need space, I just need a space.

00:35:23.141 --> 00:35:27.181
And I remember my first women grief retreat that I went to Sedona.

00:35:27.181 --> 00:35:28.474
I felt so guilty.

00:35:28.570 --> 00:35:39.106
My son was almost having a panic attack that I was going to leave, didn't know if I'd come back, yep, and, and my daughter not as much as her, but she didn't like it when I go away, yeah.

00:35:39.106 --> 00:35:42.518
But I just knew I needed to go those four days and I didn't.

00:35:42.518 --> 00:35:44.742
I came back so different.

00:35:44.742 --> 00:36:14.702
There was so much healing there and I'm still friends with some of the women that have gone there as well and I knew I needed to keep integrating those alone time and not feel the guilt as a mom, because I really needed to have find that space, yeah, to be by myself, to hear my thoughts, process my own grief, because, like you said in the beginning, I for a good eight, nine months, for me it was go, go, go every day you just have to yeah, and then it's all of a sudden it's like now.

00:36:14.882 --> 00:36:17.233
I mean, I think the mom guilt's just so hard.

00:36:17.233 --> 00:36:22.293
It is because there's times where you never know when your kids are going to bring things up.

00:36:22.293 --> 00:36:26.052
So it may be a great morning for me and I'm like all right, I can get through the day, I can do this.

00:36:26.052 --> 00:36:32.728
And all of a sudden we're driving to school and right now my daughter's finally at that point where she's trying to piece together where's daddy?

00:36:32.728 --> 00:36:37.077
And it's hard and I don't know when she's going to bring it up.

00:36:37.077 --> 00:36:43.217
And then my son's reacting to her and he's like he's in heaven, you know and what not, and it's then.

00:36:43.289 --> 00:36:47.856
It brings me into a space and it's like I'll wipe my tears as I'm crying driving them to school.

00:36:47.856 --> 00:36:51.422
But I also want them to see and they'll ask me why are you crying?

00:36:51.422 --> 00:36:52.384
I'm honest with them.

00:36:52.384 --> 00:36:53.471
I just miss your dad.

00:36:53.471 --> 00:37:01.717
I wish he could be here to see you in this moment, um, and I already travel so much for work, so it's so hard when I am here.

00:37:01.717 --> 00:37:07.737
I don't want to be away for a night, but then I'm like craving that night because I still need to process it for myself too.

00:37:07.858 --> 00:37:10.112
Yeah, um but it's a.

00:37:10.112 --> 00:37:11.856
And how's your son, like you said?

00:37:11.856 --> 00:37:14.713
Well, your kids, what are some of the things that you see?

00:37:14.713 --> 00:37:20.331
These wave of grief, yeah, could like be behavioral wise, or how do you see it affecting them?

00:37:20.451 --> 00:37:23.338
yeah, um, so it's interesting.

00:37:23.438 --> 00:37:31.416
I know your kids know it's suicide of how Scott had passed, but they were six and eight, you know, and you guys were all on the trip together when it happened.

00:37:31.416 --> 00:37:31.637
Yes.

00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:39.844
Yeah, and so for me it's actually something that my son, both of my children, my niece, she was old enough.

00:37:39.844 --> 00:37:43.172
I told her everything my son knew.

00:37:43.172 --> 00:37:47.976
That day picked him up from school and I told him immediately that his dad had died.

00:37:47.976 --> 00:37:52.817
But he my son was already in therapy when my mom had passed.

00:37:54.019 --> 00:37:54.460
Oh yeah.

00:37:54.840 --> 00:38:01.583
Oh yeah, I'm like a huge love mental health and so just kept him right on going when his dad had died.

00:38:01.583 --> 00:38:09.369
But he right now does not know that it was suicide, and what I've been doing with him is really laying the framework to have that conversation.

00:38:09.369 --> 00:38:13.117
If you ask my son what is therapy, he says it's where you go and you talk about your feelings.

00:38:14.032 --> 00:38:26.101
Oh, so cute, so cute, that's so good, we're raising kids that are going to be emotionally intelligent and be okay with therapy, and almost that self-awareness like, oh, these emotions are coming.

00:38:26.121 --> 00:38:26.702
These are coming.

00:38:26.702 --> 00:38:34.335
Yeah, that self-awareness like yeah, oh, these emotions are coming, these are coming.

00:38:34.335 --> 00:38:35.960
Yeah, you know, what are the tools that we can do to help us feel better.

00:38:35.960 --> 00:38:37.384
Okay, let's take our big brats together and whatnot.

00:38:37.384 --> 00:38:41.882
And so, um, I remember in the early beginnings of all this, I was like I can't, I don't want to have this talk with him when he's 15 years old.

00:38:41.882 --> 00:38:47.641
And I remember sitting with this counselor and she's like it's not going to be when he's 15 one, he's just too damn smart.

00:38:47.641 --> 00:38:49.150
It's going to be much sooner.

00:38:49.150 --> 00:38:59.940
I really think it'll probably be within the next year and for me, I really wanted him to understand uh, you can't die and come back.

00:39:00.461 --> 00:39:08.199
Um, as they say, so many kids will hurt themselves thinking that they are able to come back and and so it's hard.

00:39:08.199 --> 00:39:15.813
I was talking with a friend of mine and she's like don't you ever wish sometimes that, like your kids were there or saw or knew?

00:39:15.813 --> 00:39:17.882
So then you didn't have to keep this piece.

00:39:17.882 --> 00:39:19.710
And I said, well, it's not necessarily.

00:39:19.710 --> 00:39:28.219
I think neither side is better that your kids know and mine don't, because it's still going to shatter their world and change it.

00:39:28.219 --> 00:39:30.996
It's not that my kids won't know, they will absolutely know the truth.

00:39:30.996 --> 00:39:33.876
And again they have.

00:39:33.876 --> 00:39:39.690
I only tell my son the truth, so if he asks me, a direct enough answer he does get the age-appropriate.

00:39:39.789 --> 00:39:41.275
They were so much younger too.

00:39:41.275 --> 00:39:42.780
So I think you did the right thing.

00:39:42.780 --> 00:39:50.389
And, like you said, you'll see, with mine there were so many questions and what happened is you know, with mine there were so many questions and what happened is you know?

00:39:50.389 --> 00:39:51.693
They were there, so they started.

00:39:51.693 --> 00:39:59.177
What I saw is they started creating stories in their mind of what happened in that room yeah, because I didn't allow them in that room.

00:39:59.177 --> 00:40:02.630
Yeah, and in the condo I didn't allow.

00:40:02.630 --> 00:40:08.682
They just stood there in the hallway while I went in, and so they had so many questions.

00:40:08.682 --> 00:40:10.673
And then they were picturing all these things.

00:40:10.673 --> 00:40:16.635
So I realized well, they're almost picturing something even worse that dad did, or somebody attacked him, you know.

00:40:16.635 --> 00:40:20.791
So it it just it was hard, though, trust me, it was hard.

00:40:20.791 --> 00:40:23.157
I'd message, I'd call their counselors.

00:40:23.157 --> 00:40:24.402
They had play therapists, they had.

00:40:24.402 --> 00:40:27.193
I'd call and I was like these are the questions I'm getting.

00:40:27.233 --> 00:40:29.460
I really don't know how do I process this with them.

00:40:29.480 --> 00:40:46.333
Yes, that was really, really hard and, with my daughter being an old soul, she started becoming more and more, more questions, more deeper, more specific, yeah, Whereas my son I didn't go there with some specific things that she really needed to know and for her it was a trust thing.

00:40:46.333 --> 00:40:50.222
Am I ever going to trust what you're sharing with me?

00:40:50.222 --> 00:40:54.186
And without that trust we were, almost there was anger towards me.

00:40:54.186 --> 00:40:55.210
Yeah, I can understand.

00:40:55.210 --> 00:41:01.025
You know, so you almost use your mom intuition always, you know with your kids.

00:41:01.110 --> 00:41:05.282
So there's never, like you said, a black and white, a wrong and a good no, and there's no rule book for this.

00:41:05.282 --> 00:41:10.213
I wish there was a guy to say okay yes, this is how old your kids are.

00:41:10.233 --> 00:41:11.175
This is what you should do, or did they see?

00:41:11.215 --> 00:41:11.577
did they not see?

00:41:11.577 --> 00:41:14.432
And even that coming up with stories and things.

00:41:14.432 --> 00:41:23.469
Uh, maybe a couple months ago my son was like you know, my friend and I at school were talking about how daddy died and I think a lot of just even without suicide loss.

00:41:23.469 --> 00:41:28.429
Parents often will just like tell their kids something to don't talk about this or what it's like.

00:41:28.429 --> 00:41:33.972
Well, actually, if I ask him questions back, all right, he's like, well, we were coming up with how daddy died.

00:41:33.972 --> 00:41:39.342
I said, okay, what did you guys come up with because you don't know?

00:41:39.342 --> 00:41:46.302
And his four-year-old answer well, he thinks it was a werewolf, I think it was a vampire.

00:41:46.302 --> 00:41:50.675
Oh, and I was like you know, bud, those are both some really great guesses.

00:41:50.675 --> 00:41:57.204
But you know what, I don't think it's really appropriate for you and your friend at school to be talking about how you think your daddy died.

00:41:57.425 --> 00:41:59.251
My daughter did that with a friend.

00:41:59.251 --> 00:42:02.840
Actually she did that, yeah, yeah, and the mom had called me.

00:42:02.840 --> 00:42:04.070
She's like hey, just to let you know.

00:42:04.070 --> 00:42:08.242
You know sophia's been going asking her friend, how do you think?

00:42:08.242 --> 00:42:10.273
And they did that too.

00:42:10.353 --> 00:42:14.670
Actually, yeah, but I want him to know it's not the part of talking about your dad, that's wrong.

00:42:14.670 --> 00:42:15.634
He is absolutely.

00:42:15.634 --> 00:42:17.380
I mean, he is the first one.

00:42:17.380 --> 00:42:25.280
I took him to a chargers game michael was a huge chargers fan and we got on the big giant tv and we went to the restroom.

00:42:25.280 --> 00:42:27.172
This woman, the restroom's like you're the kid on the tv.

00:42:27.172 --> 00:42:29.159
He goes yeah, my, yeah, my daddy died.

00:42:29.159 --> 00:42:29.960
That's why we're here.

00:42:29.960 --> 00:42:34.574
Oh yeah, that's someone's natural reaction.

00:42:35.918 --> 00:42:38.385
And somebody else might say but we don't say that.

00:42:38.385 --> 00:42:41.893
And I said you are absolutely right, sir, have a great day, ma'am.

00:42:41.893 --> 00:42:46.780
And I kept going because it's that's still his truth and I want him to understand that first.

00:42:46.780 --> 00:42:56.434
There again, there's no shame in on our side of this, but it's also there's an age-appropriate thing for him to know and understand, so he will know that answer.

00:42:56.434 --> 00:42:58.297
He knows so many things.

00:42:58.297 --> 00:43:02.231
He's asked me like he's again old soul, so I bet you, my son and your daughter.

00:43:02.291 --> 00:43:09.751
They're very similar, but he's getting very smart with his questions of, okay, were you with daddy when he died, you know?

00:43:09.751 --> 00:43:14.242
Or where was he, and just all those, and I'll answer those Cause again.

00:43:14.242 --> 00:43:19.389
Those are fine for him to know and it's I want him even with the mental health side of things.

00:43:19.389 --> 00:43:27.157
When we talk about our families or whatnot, there are certain family members of mine who I don't speak to and there were certain family members of my husband's that we didn't speak to anymore.

00:43:27.157 --> 00:43:47.099
But if you ask because all of that's going to play into mental health and all of that's going to help him understand what led for him to get to that decision and so if you asked him why I don't speak to my own dad, he would say because he didn't treat me with love and respect, and so I want him to understand those things.

00:43:47.099 --> 00:43:54.992
So when he does know why his dad died was because he took his own life is he can understand the steps and things that took to get him there too.

00:43:55.594 --> 00:43:56.456
That's beautiful.

00:43:56.456 --> 00:43:57.057
I love that.

00:43:57.057 --> 00:43:58.842
Well, you're doing such a great job.

00:43:58.842 --> 00:44:10.880
I it's so beautiful to watch because that's similar things I've been trying to teach the kids, you know, and ultimately also saying that it was you know, know, they did nothing wrong because a lot came into play.

00:44:10.880 --> 00:44:12.583
It was like what else we could have done.

00:44:12.869 --> 00:44:13.793
What if I went in there?

00:44:13.833 --> 00:44:22.519
mom, or I didn't love dad enough, so that guilt and shame that happens as suicide survivors, especially for little kids, is so real and raw.

00:44:22.519 --> 00:44:27.514
So I'm really trying to be mindful to say it was ultimately dad's choice, choice.

00:44:27.514 --> 00:44:32.141
You know his choice, his behavior, his environment, and it was his choice.

00:44:32.141 --> 00:44:42.153
You know the the wise, we won't know all the all the wise, but ultimately I do think you had mentioned as well that your husband thought they were doing us a favor.

00:44:42.313 --> 00:44:51.036
Yeah right, because they were feeling like a burden at this point and I do believe that as well, and unfortunately, you know, I wish they would see it otherwise.

00:44:51.036 --> 00:44:56.036
Right, yeah, where there was so much love, there's so much support around them, but they had to start.

00:44:56.077 --> 00:44:57.922
It's almost like their self-love.

00:44:57.922 --> 00:45:00.335
They couldn't love themselves.

00:45:00.335 --> 00:45:05.916
They sat probably a lot of shame and guilt for where they were at mentally right.

00:45:05.916 --> 00:45:17.456
And that's the hard part to know that we can't make somebody, you can't put a mirror in their face saying you are a smart man, you are capable, you know, there's so much around you, there's so much hope.

00:45:17.456 --> 00:45:18.400
Yeah, you know.

00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:19.384
And there's so much love.

00:45:19.384 --> 00:45:26.898
Yes, I want you to be here, number one yeah, no, but exactly yeah, no, it's, it's a.

00:45:26.898 --> 00:45:29.822
It's so hard because it's you.

00:45:29.822 --> 00:45:32.255
Wish you could have gone back and just told them one more time.

00:45:32.476 --> 00:45:32.757
Yeah.

00:45:33.030 --> 00:45:35.460
But I truly think that's the thing with suicide is so many.

00:45:35.460 --> 00:45:39.054
Even myself, I used to think suicide was such a selfish act.

00:45:40.219 --> 00:45:41.434
Yeah, you get that a lot right.

00:45:41.434 --> 00:45:43.677
Yeah, I'm sure sometimes comments All things.

00:45:48.329 --> 00:45:49.532
And it's like actually to to some.

00:45:49.532 --> 00:45:52.541
It was really the first time being on this side now that I could say actually to some this is a way of sacrifice.00:45:52.561 --> 00:45:53.262


Yes, sacrifice, you know.00:45:53.262 --> 00:45:55.835


Yes, yeah, for the family, for the family.00:45:55.835 --> 00:45:57.460


So there's so much for our future.00:45:57.460 --> 00:46:00.210


Yes, you know, and that's where the empathy comes in.00:46:00.512 --> 00:46:01.434


You know it's like I can.00:46:01.434 --> 00:46:03.438


I don't agree with his decision.00:46:03.438 --> 00:46:10.291


I can still have empathy and understand how low he must have felt and truly thought we would have been better off.00:46:10.291 --> 00:46:24.505


So that's where it's like all right, if you truly thought we'd be better off without you, then that's what my kids deserve is for them to see us become better, for you even not to be able to be here and see it yeah, that's so true, that's so beautiful.00:46:24.606 --> 00:46:27.335


Now I'm just curious, because this has happened a lot to us.00:46:27.335 --> 00:46:28.811


Has he ever come?00:46:28.811 --> 00:46:29.876


What was your husband's name?00:46:29.876 --> 00:46:31.382


Michael Michael does.00:46:31.382 --> 00:46:36.742


Do you guys get ever little signs that he's there, he's around yeah, you know it's funny.00:46:36.902 --> 00:46:41.998


Even as I was driving here so I was getting ready earlier I was like I just want to sign.00:46:41.998 --> 00:46:44.585


I just want to sign as I'm driving.00:46:44.585 --> 00:47:02.911


Um, his number was 23 loved Michael Jordan, I wasn't his true wife until I got a Michael Jordan tattoo and we got married on the 23rd, the only one out of the year because, like truly, 23 is our number um, and as I'm driving, there's this truck with two mix match stickers of a two and a three right next to each other.00:47:03.032 --> 00:47:06.719


As I'm driving here, I took a picture, you know, and it's so.00:47:06.719 --> 00:47:13.000


There's small things, you know, but we've had lights flickered um songs playing.00:47:13.000 --> 00:47:19.541


So my son and I, last month, in June, I took him on a work trip with me to Sonoma, where we actually used to live.00:47:19.541 --> 00:47:25.476


There's a property I work at quite a bit out there it is, we'll go wine tasting sometime yeah00:47:26.838 --> 00:47:33.740


but he got to go with me and he actually does a lot better when he gets to go on some trips because he understands I really am working, you know.00:47:33.740 --> 00:47:41.130


But he knew he was born there and so he's like I want to do all the things you and daddy used to do when you were here.00:47:41.130 --> 00:47:44.940


I'm like okay, and so took him to a restaurant we went to.00:47:44.940 --> 00:47:45.971


What does he tell the server?00:47:45.971 --> 00:47:48.215


When the man's like what can I get you to drink?00:47:48.215 --> 00:47:51.702


And I make my almost five-year-old order his own drinks?00:47:51.702 --> 00:47:53.670


He's like he goes.00:47:54.012 --> 00:47:55.074


My daddy died.00:47:55.074 --> 00:47:57.559


He used to come here to eat with my mom.00:47:57.559 --> 00:47:59.481


Again, he's right.00:47:59.481 --> 00:48:04.893


And I look at this server's face and he's just like and I was like you are right, he would like a water, please.00:48:04.893 --> 00:48:05.875


Thank you so much.00:48:05.875 --> 00:48:30.250


But I took my son that week to it's called Country Summer and it was actually a country festival my husband and I used to go to and we lived out there and the last time we went Tim McGraw was the headliner and I was so excited and he got so drunk that we needed to leave before Tim McGraw took the stage and I refuse to ever go back to the festival ever since.00:48:30.250 --> 00:48:34.268


So to be able to go back with my son and to create such positive memories was really just beautiful for us.00:48:34.490 --> 00:48:35.407


Instead of avoiding it.00:48:35.670 --> 00:48:46.375


Yeah, instead of avoiding it and it became our thing of let's go together and I told him, I said you know, the last time I came here with your dad, you know, and we had these talks, and so when we're at the concert, he asked is there ever signs?00:48:46.375 --> 00:48:53.123


A song Michael used to play was Bob Marley's Three Little Birds.00:48:53.402 --> 00:48:56.527


Oh, I love that song, I play that all the time, all the time, that's our song.00:48:57.269 --> 00:48:58.672


We even played it.00:48:58.672 --> 00:49:03.677


My son and I danced to it at I didn't do a celebration of life, I called it a.00:49:03.677 --> 00:49:06.009


What did I call it?00:49:06.009 --> 00:49:07.635


A remembrance gathering.00:49:07.635 --> 00:49:11.547


I like that because I didn't feel right calling it a celebration of life.00:49:11.827 --> 00:49:13.251


It just it didn't yeah.00:49:13.251 --> 00:49:15.556


Remembrance part yep thank you.00:49:16.257 --> 00:49:28.735


And so when my husband and I or sorry, when my son and I were at the country festival again, it's a country festival why this artist decided to do his own rendition of that song made no sense.00:49:28.735 --> 00:49:31.567


But it started playing and I see my son and he turns around to me.00:49:31.586 --> 00:49:38.288


He's like mommy, that's our song yeah and we just held each other and cried, and it's just so.00:49:38.288 --> 00:49:46.250


There's these moments where he does show up, um, and I'm thankful for them and I can't wait for my son to really like start to recognize.00:49:46.250 --> 00:49:52.889


I'm like listen, that's daddy saying he sees you and whatnot, but, um, so yeah, they, I think those are.00:49:52.951 --> 00:50:03.677


So, those little signs, those are signs, like I always say, songs or through like for for me you know the flickering of the lights or changing like um tv channels.00:50:03.677 --> 00:50:09.195


One time he did that many times we literally were like put the remote away, what's going on?00:50:09.195 --> 00:50:10.989


Yeah, we put it away and it keeps happening.00:50:11.028 --> 00:50:14.742


We're like okay, yeah, I feel like, all right, this is what it is.00:50:14.742 --> 00:50:17.289


I remember being in a therapy session.00:50:17.309 --> 00:50:38.690


Yeah, and I was talking about scott and to validate what I was saying, he goes with the lights and I was like whoa you and so and I think for grief, anyone grieving, especially for children, to know that dad or your mom is still present, that they can talk to them, they can connect with them.00:50:39.364 --> 00:50:41.911


Actually, my son just a couple of weeks ago.00:50:41.911 --> 00:50:47.405


He wakes up and making breakfast and say mom, you can believe it, I dreamt about dad yesterday.00:50:47.405 --> 00:50:55.759


I woke up at three, three, three in the morning and dad and I were watching star Wars together and that was their thing.00:50:55.759 --> 00:50:56.882


They used to watch star Wars.00:50:56.882 --> 00:51:03.527


Scott would buy them like star Wars Legos way too big for his own age, but he just loves stars so that's just something he loves to do now.00:51:03.947 --> 00:51:07.173


And I said, mateus, that's you.00:51:07.173 --> 00:51:17.873


You actually did connect with dad, like it wasn't just a dream, you actually did and you'll probably do that more and this is a way you'll be able to connect with dad.00:51:17.873 --> 00:51:22.777


And I know that week my son has been feeling lonely.00:51:22.777 --> 00:51:26.295


I mean July in Arizona everyone's gone, everyone's gone.00:51:26.724 --> 00:51:29.052


No one can go outside where none of us are getting our vitamin D.00:51:29.052 --> 00:51:29.675


Right now.00:51:30.346 --> 00:51:36.965


All his friends have been gone all summer he felt really lonely and he was missing his friends from Alaska, like he was.00:51:36.965 --> 00:51:44.864


I had gave him usually I take away the tablets, but no, it was so they've been kind of messenger and calling each other and he was really feeling alone.00:51:44.864 --> 00:51:45.967


So I did ask him.00:51:45.967 --> 00:51:49.815


I said, matias, were you feeling really lonely that night?00:51:49.815 --> 00:51:50.577


He said yeah.00:51:50.577 --> 00:51:55.791


I said well, dad came in to say you're never truly alone, never truly alone.00:51:55.791 --> 00:52:07.590


You always have, you know, your loved ones around that have passed, you know, and and our faith is really big and you know he knows he can pray to God and ask for healing, and so I.00:52:07.590 --> 00:52:17.557


That's why I love that you share that you have these little signs too, you know, because I, I, I get them often, you know, and even as you're describing them, alyssa, like I.00:52:17.597 --> 00:52:22.172


just I'm so encouraged by you to continue to be such.00:52:22.172 --> 00:52:36.085


Speak so positive of our late husbands because again, I think that's the narrative with suicide we could absolutely hate them for their decision and just I also just feel like if I hated him, my kids would hate him.00:52:36.085 --> 00:52:38.431


I don't want that ruminating in their hearts.00:52:38.451 --> 00:52:42.106


No, that resentment no no, and it's like I think it's again.00:52:42.106 --> 00:52:45.876


It's the active choice every day to say, okay, this may have happened.00:52:45.876 --> 00:52:47.367


Where's the positive?00:52:47.367 --> 00:52:48.369


Where's the moments?00:52:48.369 --> 00:52:49.032


Where are the things?00:52:49.032 --> 00:52:58.635


How can I still build up my kids, your kids, to still be beautiful, functioning, healthy adults one day and to be able to have these lights flicker, the songs come on.00:52:58.635 --> 00:53:01.614


I don't want that always to be a negative thing for them.00:53:01.614 --> 00:53:04.132


I want it to still be a positive.00:53:04.746 --> 00:53:08.391


Positive, yeah, a positive Almost for them.00:53:08.391 --> 00:53:13.523


I always say, oh God must have had a big plan for you to lose your dad at six and eight years old.00:53:13.523 --> 00:53:21.811


We don't know the big picture of it, nope, but you're definitely inspiring others now to see how you are thriving considering your loss.00:53:21.811 --> 00:53:28.559


But I also, with my kids being older now I am not, I am definitely.00:53:28.559 --> 00:53:33.496


They know dad was addicted to, you know, pain medication.00:53:33.496 --> 00:53:34.358


There was Uncle Ina.00:53:34.358 --> 00:53:35.780


They did see dad though.00:53:35.780 --> 00:53:38.170


Yeah, where he's six foot four.00:53:38.170 --> 00:53:43.302


Yeah, where we are somewhere and he just sits at the bar all day and all of a sudden he falls down.00:53:43.523 --> 00:53:47.916


Yeah, and I'm having to ask a stranger to help me carry him back to the room.00:53:47.916 --> 00:53:49.331


Yeah, you know, they saw.00:53:49.331 --> 00:53:59.231


Saw that and that's when I was like my kids are getting so much trauma, even me staying yeah but always I stayed because I thought well, there was always that little hope.00:53:59.311 --> 00:54:28.420


And you know, I said well, I've said those vows yeah, you know that's the commitment the commitment, and so committed to my family, and I always thought, well, there's always that hope, you know, and because he wasn't, didn't remove that veil where I knew the depth of his pain, yeah and uh, he'd always say, yeah, okay, once the lawsuit is done, once is this it was always it's, there's something, the work in this will be better yeah you know, so I always okay, okay, well, you know he.00:54:28.440 --> 00:54:29.606


I can get through these three months.00:54:29.606 --> 00:54:30.550


I can get through this.00:54:30.664 --> 00:54:32.231


Yeah, and it goes through waves.00:54:32.231 --> 00:54:41.454


You know, my husband was very functional, even though he was depressed and an addict, and you know so, and the alcohol came to play almost every day.00:54:41.454 --> 00:54:44.826


By the last year, you know, I didn't even recognize who he was.00:54:44.925 --> 00:54:54.873


So, my kids did see that, you know, and I do want them to learn that your environment truly matters and what you do for yourself.00:54:54.873 --> 00:55:02.518


So kind of you know, as they're going to go Sophia's 11, become a teenager, make some decisions, kind of be self-aware.00:55:02.518 --> 00:55:09.342


Those affected, his brain, health, yeah Right, and your environment matters, and it's all about balance.00:55:09.342 --> 00:55:09.985


Yeah, you know they see me enjoy a glass of wine and this and that.00:55:09.985 --> 00:55:10.925


Health, yeah right, and your environment matters and it's all about balance.00:55:10.925 --> 00:55:17.771


Yeah, you know they, they see me enjoy a glass of wine and this and that, and, but it's all about balance, yeah, right, and they see me go to the gym.00:55:17.931 --> 00:55:19.195


They see me do healthy things.00:55:19.235 --> 00:55:21.784


Yes, yeah, do all the work on myself.00:55:21.784 --> 00:55:30.519


They know when I mom oh, when they see me in the morning I'm doing my meditation and I'm like huh and do my breath work.00:55:30.519 --> 00:55:32.268


Yeah, I love it, and they.00:55:32.469 --> 00:55:47.251


It's good to see me do the work, but also when I have hard days, I don't hide it either you know I was always really good at hiding my emotions, but now they they see me go throughout, throughout and how we can communicate with that right and um.00:55:47.251 --> 00:55:52.119


It's so you know, I'd love I let's talk about your career.00:55:52.119 --> 00:55:57.534


I mean, you're an amazing event planner and like yeah so you travel around the world right.00:55:57.795 --> 00:56:09.856


I'm very fortunate too, which, when I first started my career, when I kind of had met Michael genuinely, I this was not going to be my life I was I didn't even dream this could be what I was doing.00:56:09.856 --> 00:56:16.827


He was actually really the one to always encourage me to start my own business, and I'm so thankful for where it's at now.00:56:16.827 --> 00:56:29.327


But I also think it was one of the things that made him feel so less than never that I ever I never once brought up anything financial with it or the opportunities or what again.00:56:29.327 --> 00:56:35.346


He really was my biggest cheerleader, but I think it was always the thing that made him feel like where am I growing?00:56:35.346 --> 00:56:36.889


Where am I excelling?00:56:37.811 --> 00:56:41.878


um, as you were, rising, yeah, he was almost his self-worth.00:56:41.878 --> 00:56:47.532


Even he went down as you were rising, yeah, but um, and how can people find you?00:56:47.532 --> 00:56:48.072


Oh?00:56:49.514 --> 00:56:51.898


Instagram, so my company.00:56:51.898 --> 00:56:58.900


I named it after my two kiddos, andre McKenna, and so, yeah, I love what I get to do for me.00:56:58.900 --> 00:57:03.853


And it's actually one of the questions I got last year as I was talking to a potential couple.00:57:03.853 --> 00:57:05.217


The mom had asked me she goes.00:57:05.217 --> 00:57:07.592


Well, I have to be quite honest with you.00:57:07.592 --> 00:57:10.565


I've seen your social media, my personal Instagram.00:57:10.565 --> 00:57:14.713


Do you still believe in love despite losing your husband?00:57:14.713 --> 00:57:20.956


And I said and it's like I actually had to sit there with myself last year and say, can I still do this?00:57:20.956 --> 00:57:25.007


Can I watch people marry those other lies, knowing I lost mine?00:57:25.528 --> 00:57:27.692


how can I still play in this, be in this space?00:57:27.692 --> 00:57:37.275


Um, and I said absolutely, I still believe in this, I still want my kids to see what love is supposed to be.00:57:37.275 --> 00:57:46.177


Um, so I feel yeah, I still I feel so fortunate to get to do what I get to do and to be welcomed into my couple's lives and love stories.00:57:46.257 --> 00:57:51.757


It's an honor and it's, it's beautiful to hear that you are open to be loved again.00:57:51.757 --> 00:57:53.309


Yeah, you know, to that possibility.00:57:53.309 --> 00:57:53.891


It's a process.00:57:53.891 --> 00:57:55.809


It's a process, you know.00:57:55.869 --> 00:58:07.652


but I hope what I at least tell myself is I hope my son gets to see what it's like for me to be loved, and I also hope my daughter gets to see what it's like, as a woman, to be loved.00:58:07.652 --> 00:58:09.891


I want them to see that.00:58:10.385 --> 00:58:11.809


I think that would be another podcast.00:58:11.889 --> 00:58:14.135


Yes, widow, widows and dating.00:58:14.135 --> 00:58:15.427


No, that could be a whole different one.00:58:15.427 --> 00:58:16.210


We need another hour.00:58:16.210 --> 00:58:17.173


Yeah, yeah, yeah.00:58:19.869 --> 00:58:25.777


We'll have to do that, and book that, but follow her on social media.00:58:25.777 --> 00:58:28.992


I will have it on the show notes, but look at her pictures.00:58:28.992 --> 00:58:31.079


She is gifted and talented.00:58:31.079 --> 00:58:36.675


Oh, thank you, and yeah, if I ever get married again or plan a big event.00:58:36.896 --> 00:58:37.677


I'm hiring you.00:58:37.677 --> 00:58:42.253


Thank you, and just thank you for having me and just sharing your story and letting me share mine.00:58:42.514 --> 00:58:43.175


Absolutely.00:58:43.175 --> 00:58:44.018


Thank you for being here.00:58:44.018 --> 00:58:52.503


Thanks you.